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Autori Temë: Tyre Suppliers attribute changes 26 përgjigje
Marco Verati
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Postim i vjeter #1 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 11:48:55 Citim 
i read :
"The attributes and price of each supplier may slightly vary from season to season"

Is there somewhere an historic of the changes ?
Kevin Mcferrin
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Postim i vjeter #2 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 11:57:32 Citim 
Yes, if you keep track of them.
Rolf Tobler
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Postim i vjeter #3 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 12:57:48 Citim 
have there been any changes for this season? anyone kept track?
Farcy Génel
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Postim i vjeter #4 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 13:23:15 Citim 
they slightly changed the price of one of the supplier (which is picked by 5 or 6 people at most), just to say they changed something. But all the changes these last seasons were useless and uninteresting.

Rogerio Pereira
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Postim i vjeter #5 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 13:24:08 Citim 
I'm mostly certain lots of people keep track of those. Part of the fun of the game. But at first glance, no change for this season. Before the new group of tyres arrived, there were more changing, but now Admins apparently have the set of attributes quite fixed as there's tyres for specific conditions so changing would make them overlap eachother.
Stuart Foster
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Postim i vjeter #6 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:12:02 (Së fundi edituar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:31:36 nga Stuart Foster) Citim 
Quote ( Marco Verati @ September 1st 2015,11:48:55 )

Is there somewhere an historic of the changes ?


actual change in the supplier profiles have been pretty small in recent seasons (last 10 or so), as noted above by Rogerio. Only the prices changed with much frequency.

List of Recent changes (since the new tyres came in) :

SX: Hancock price decrease
SX: Michelini price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Avonn price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Contimental price decrease
SX: Bad Year warmup decrease
SX: Yokomama durability increase
SX: Avonn dry performance decrease
SX: Bad Year price decrease
SX: Dunnolop price decrease
SX: Yokomama price decrease
S39 : new tyres added to the game (Avonn, Contimental, Hancock)
Niels Wolters
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Postim i vjeter #7 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:14:33 Citim 
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2015,17:12:02 )

Quote ( Marco Verati @ September 1st 2015,11:48:55 )

Is there somewhere an historic of the changes ?

Recent changes:

SX: Michelini price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Avonn price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Hancock price increase
SX: Contimental price decrease
SX: Yoko +1 bar of dura
SX: Avon -1 bar of dry performance
SX: Bad Year price decrease
SX: Dunnolop price decrease
SX: Yokomama price decrease
S39 : new tyres added to the game (Avonn, Contimental, Hancock)


You did not write the most recent one ;)
Stuart Foster
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Postim i vjeter #8 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:16:07 Citim 
ah yes, the warmup one...gotcha :)
Stuart Foster
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Postim i vjeter #9 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:18:39 (Së fundi edituar 1 Shtator 2015, 17:32:33 nga Stuart Foster) Citim 
btw, this is before my time of course...

http://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=File%3ATyresuppliers.gif

were yoko really that good once upon a season?:) can we go back to these times, please :P
Kuba Szajbel
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Postim i vjeter #10 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 18:11:12 Citim 
Looking at these historical supplier attributes I think the game went in correct direction. Maybe H and BY prices are a bit too high, but then again it all depends on season's weather.
Jukka Sireni2
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Postim i vjeter #11 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 19:40:59 Citim 
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2015,17:18:39 )

btw, this is before my time of course...

http://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=File%3ATyresuppliers.gif

were yoko really that good once upon a season?:) can we go back to these times, please :P


It was only a season fun.
Marco Verati
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Postim i vjeter #12 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 22:49:17 Citim 
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2015,17:18:39 )

btw, this is before my time of course...

http://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=File%3ATyresuppliers.gif

were yoko really that good once upon a season?:) can we go back to these times, please :P


thanks Stuart & Rogero
Stuart Foster
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Postim i vjeter #13 Postuar 1 Shtator 2015, 23:04:14 (Së fundi edituar 1 Shtator 2015, 23:05:46 nga Stuart Foster) Citim 
Quote ( Kuba Szajbel @ September 1st 2015,18:11:12 )

Looking at these historical supplier attributes I think the game went in correct direction. Maybe H and BY prices are a bit too high, but then again it all depends on season's weather.


Yeah, I personally feel 2.8m or 2.9 would be better for BY (just cos Conti is so damn cheap and generally has better chances for more favourable weather due to the weighting of dry vs wet races) and Hancock was about right when it was 5.5m I thought....though like you say, in a season with favourable low temps, they'd be a bargain...its at least unlikely BY could ever be considered a good "season" choice, not at the current price any way...25m more over the season than Conti :)
Kuba Szajbel
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Postim i vjeter #14 Postuar 2 Shtator 2015, 01:08:52 Citim 
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2015,23:04:14 )

at least unlikely BY could ever be considered a good "season" choice, not at the current price any way
They could be a reasonable option with warm up lowered by two or more bars but this would make them very similar to yoko
Josh Clark
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Postim i vjeter #15 Postuar 24 Qershor 2019, 16:29:37 Citim 
This thread is old but I guess the right place to post...


I just wanted to say thanks to the admins. I remember a lot of talk in the forums not so long ago about how stale the tyre attributes had become and how constant small changes would make for much more interesting seasons for veterans in the higher leagues.

I think the changes in the last few seasons have been interesting. And particularly this season's change the most interesting of them all, I can't wait to see if it has the impact I expect it will in Master and Elite. BY look like a steal right now.

So yeah, although it's not mentioned, the changes don't go unnoticed, and I think they're a good thing. So thanks for listening to feedback.
Ivan Silva
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Postim i vjeter #16 Postuar 24 Qershor 2019, 16:44:17 Citim 
I think a lot of inbalances might have been corrected this season for master/elite. There are always downsides though.

BY looks improved and possibly a much more solid tyre than D which might make D a bit overpriced now, unless BY price increases a bit soon enough. I think BY should increase price a bit and maybe we could reduce the gap between premium/non-premium tyres.

Also like the fact Michi price increased and BR now looks like the real top tyre as we deduce by the price instead of just a very expensive tyre compared to Michi.

Overall Avonn remains useless though, way overpriced for the tyre presented to us.
Sam Norris
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Postim i vjeter #17 Postuar 24 Qershor 2019, 16:56:22 Citim 
Agree with most of that chaps, expect to see more BY's than dunnos in Master. But still see plenty of folk making the Avonns work with retaining and promos, never used them myself, they do look crap.

Price decrease for Hancocks, then Contis and Dunnos swapping prices are the other tweaks id have liked to see, but I guess if they make too many at once it gets a bit messy.

Yokos still the best tyre :P
Božidar Topčić
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Postim i vjeter #18 Postuar 2 Korrik 2019, 12:31:06 Citim 
Don't like the new tweak. D and BY are pretty unbalanced considering price. Only idiots like me picked D and regret it immediately. Dunlop either needs a performance or durability boost or cost lower, or BY should be more pricey.
George Slater
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Postim i vjeter #19 Postuar 2 Korrik 2019, 14:28:15 Citim 
Quote ( Božidar Topčić @ July 2nd 2019,12:31:06 )

Don't like the new tweak. D and BY are pretty unbalanced considering price. Only idiots like me picked D and regret it immediately. Dunlop either needs a performance or durability boost or cost lower, or BY should be more pricey.


If you look at tyre suppliers statistics you can see dunnolop is roughly twice as common as badyears in master and 7x as common in pro. That means dunnolop is still a more favoured tyre compared to badyears. The improvement to badyears, while reducing the share of dunnolops, has not replaced them in the tyre market either.

Just because you feel you picked the wrong tyre for your situation or you failed to notice the changes in time, doesn't mean that the changes are inherently broken.
James Berriman
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Postim i vjeter #20 Postuar 2 Korrik 2019, 14:58:10 Citim 
Quote ( George Slater @ July 2nd 2019,14:28:15 )

doesn't mean that the changes are inherently broken.


he's not said that George.

Quote ( Božidar Topčić @ July 2nd 2019,12:31:06 )

Only idiots like me picked D


Also informed us that his opinion is heavily influenced by his own perceived mistake, I expect the dislike of the tweak is deflected there from himself :P it is surely natural for a dunno runner to be questioning their lack of bang for buck?

was expecting a few more BY cars actually,, Dunnolop complaints department are off the hook :D for now anyway
Norton Martins
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Postim i vjeter #21 Postuar 8 Korrik 2019, 19:21:17 Citim 
no ups for peepeereli though.
Josh Clark
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Postim i vjeter #22 Postuar 13 Mars 2020, 20:26:58 (Së fundi edituar 13 Mars 2020, 20:27:38 nga Josh Clark) Citim 
Hmm tyres need a shake up soon I think. Whatever this new meta is, it's all but killed the market share for Dunno and Avonn. Yoko factories must be busy ;)

Price drop for D or a raise for Y would be nice, or durability bar drop for BY? Whatever it is, a small shuffle for the below-Elite brands looks necessary.

Nice to see Elite so colourful though :)
Baptiste Teixeira
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Postim i vjeter #23 Postuar 14 Mars 2020, 12:19:47 Citim 

Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 13th 2020,20:26:58 )

Hmm tyres need a shake up soon I think. Whatever this new meta is, it's all but killed the market share for Dunno and Avonn.


Yoko are so cheap for how good they are that I think the only reason to ever choose Avonn is because no one else is picking it.
Bert Huylebroeck
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Postim i vjeter #24 Postuar 14 Mars 2020, 13:21:04 Citim 
It would be nice to see changes here almost every season. Not big ones, because 1 bar change can already be enough (the 5th bar in dry on BY changed a lot for people).

Why not let Avonn have an extra dry bar (in price it's an alternative for yoko, but really...)
Yoko could have his price raise slightly
Conti is doing what it is suppose to do.
Dunno's chould get some upgrade.
BY should lose 1 bar on durability
Hanni should gain 1 bar on durability
Michi should drop a small bit in price
BR can stay.

Personnal opinions.
Diogo Abdalla
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Postim i vjeter #25 Postuar 14 Mars 2020, 13:30:05 (Së fundi edituar 14 Mars 2020, 13:30:20 nga Diogo Abdalla) Citim 
Quote ( Bert Huylebroeck @ March 14th 2020,13:21:04 )


Why not let Avonn have an extra dry bar (in price it's an alternative for yoko, but really...


I was thinking about that just the other day: avonns could be viable if they had 1 more bar of dry.

Either that or it needs to be cheaper
Thierry Le Denmat
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Postim i vjeter #26 Postuar 14 Mars 2020, 16:17:35 Citim 
I think, It would be a good idea to have some change between EVERY season. IRL that was the rules when many supplyers were in F1
Edwin Silva
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Postim i vjeter #27 Postuar 14 Mars 2020, 19:21:23 Citim 
Some time ago the cost of Dunnos was raised because they had a big share in the market. Currently there are suggestions about doing the same for Yokos. However, a high share does not forcefully mean the prize must be increased, but instead it could be an indication the premium stuff is expensive but effective.

For instance, let's see some numbers about Yokos, Dunnos and BYs in Master since S71, when BY became popular. Initially, the average points per manager per race:

BY: 1.3
Dunnos: 1.16
Yokos: 0.84

This is a very important initial piece of information, because by virtue of being 32M and 20M cheaper per season than BYs and Dunnos respectively, everything being equal means that important cash saved is still far from enough to produce similar points per race performance.

Now, points per race is a bad metric, particularly true for very specialized tyres which might get average points per race but mediocre overall performance during a season, thus why Contis aren't included. Also, it isn't true everything is equal: a manager saving 32M with Yokos instead of BYs doesn't mean said manager has the means to spend 32M higher in the rest of stuff compared with a BY guy. One might argue it's more likely richer or with higher sponsorship reserves managers are more likely to pick BYs or Dunnos, but then again one might argue a manager with better driver/car is more likely to go Yokos because he won't need the premium tyres. These 2 things skew the analysis in opposite directions, and it's impossible to pinpoint the effect of both without further analysis and access to deeper information.

Next, let's check the share of promotion spots from these tyres in respect to their total share (again only using these 3 tyres for benchmarking) in the same period:

Share in promo spots / total share
BY: 41% / 30%
Dunnos: 27% / 21%
Yokos: 31% / 49%

Both BYs and Dunnos have a way higher share of promotion spots respect to their total share, whereas Yokos truly pales at that. Furthermore, these data only includes managers who actually promoted, so there are a few Yoko users who landed in this statistic just because a manager with BYs went negative, so it was either a fluke or an unwilling promotion. If the data was only about top 3, disregarding actual promotion, it would be even more skewed towards BYs.

So far it is clear generally scoring and definitely promoting is way harder for Yokos despite the saved assets. But what about retention? Maybe there is some compensation there. Last season, compared with their share, BYs and Yokos had similar demotion rates while Dunnos had +70% higher retention odds than both. Again, using skewed data, because 4 from the only 15 demoters with BYs last season did so by going negative or rookie resetting, several of them after scoring enough points for retention (including a 60 pointer), and thanks to those 4 negatives, 3 Yokos and 1 Dunnos were saved from demotions. If we exclude these numbers, the retention odds for Yokos are way harder than for Dunnos or BYs. That in one of the driest seasons ever. A season with normal rain would be way more beneficial for BYs.

So nope, my dawg, retentions are also heavily harder with Yokos than with the other tyres in this benchmarking. Which begs the questions: Are they truly cheap? Should the cost of tyres with which promoting, consistent scoring and retaining is harder despite the important savings, be increased? If anything, it's clear BYs are semi premium tyres: expensive, normally to the point of being a problem finances wise in Master and Pro (Elite is a different story due to the considerably higher Q+R earnings), but heck, I wish I could afford them without running in the red. Everything is easy with them.

I didn't include data from Pro because it would be an even more complete landslide, with the difference between these tyres, specially Yokos to BYs, way higher than in Master, but anybody feel free to check that as well.
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