| Autor |
Tópico: Changes Needed for Elite |
97 respostas
|
|
|
|
#1 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 03:19:06
|
Citar
|
I know I will be flamed for putting this up but I look at what the Elite league has become and I question whether changes need to be made.
For me, Elite means the top 40 managers all racing to see who is best. The ideal is that anyone who reaches Elite or wants to be there should be ready to put the "pedal to the metal" and race hard. Instead I look at it today and notice this:
32.5% of Elite managers are taking Pip's, Avonns or Yoko's for tires. The absolute worst tires to race on and surely a quest to LOSE, not win in Elite. Sure it is here so managers can build up money before falling back to Master. I understand the strategy but it makes a mockery of elite to have a third of all Elite managers planning on losing when they get to Elite.
A further 30% are taking Conti; tire. Not a tire to WIN on. Perhaps exist and possibly retain but these managers have also decided to not race for the title. While I am okay with retention tires, I find that Elite is now down to only 37.5% who are taking any shot at winning Elite.
I think if you looked harder you would see that only 15% of managers are taking a tire that has a reasonable chance of winning in Elite (Michi, Hanc, BridgeR). That means the crown is being fought over by only 6..Yes 6 managers are possibly taking a shot at winning Elite.
Something is wrong when the biggest and best managers make it to the top and then find that only 6 are really in any position to race for the crown.
The question is what can be done about this. First I would eliminate the choice of any of the Pip, Yoko or Avonn tires. If you cannot afford real tires then perhaps you should not be promoting up to Elite. I would suggest blacking these tires out as a choice for Elite managers so the field becomes more competitive as far as tires go.
Next I would pay some attention to why so many people are looking for cheap tires and planning on losing before the season has even begun. Anyone that has been to Elite knows how expensive it can be and how fast your bank and sponsors erode. The best managers (6?) get the best sponsors and keep the cycle going. I would inject more new sponsors after each race so the people further down in the ranks could have a better chance of getting new sponsors and putting up a fight for the crown.
I might also call for amendments to the race income so people further down in the race results make a bit more money. Instead of race income going from 22M for first place and 11M for 40th place, Change this so first place gets 22M but 40th is only down to 15M.
Some of these should make effects to the money balance in elite and provide less reason to want to lose before the season starts and to aid in greater competitiveness in the Elite group. No answer is perfect but do we want an Elite race/crown where only 6 people are really taking a shot at the crown?
Okay guys flame away....
|
|
|
|
|
|
#2 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 03:46:27
|
Citar
|
It's all about planning, simple as that. Not every season is a pushing one in any division, and Elite is the top tier of Gpro competition, so there's a logic in the method Elite managers follow to streghten a package to compete for the Championship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#3 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 05:02:29
|
Citar
|
There aren't six managers going for the title, there are two. And Elite can never be about 40 managers fighting for the championship, simply because there aren't 40 drivers in the game who are good enough for that. Reaching Elite shouldn't mean you're immediately a title contender; there is still work to be done after reaching Elite. Just like reaching Pro doesn't mean you're immediately in a position to fight for promotion to Master.
So I don't think there is anything wrong with the number of managers who are actually fighting for the title. I do think the phenomenon of planned relegation on Pipis raises some good questions, such as:
- Do these managers have a competitive advantage over their Master groupmates after the relegate? If so, is this fair and good for the game?
- Does this have undesirable effects on the driver market in Master and/or in Elite?
I think essentially this is probably an unwanted side effect of the introduction of promotion sponsors. They were meant to encourage people to go for promotion, and help them find their feet in the higher division. But as it turns out, people prefer to hoard them. Solution: make a promo sponsor offer expire if the manager relegates before activating it. In fact this could be applied to all sponsor offers, not just promo sponsors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 05:16:42 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 05:21:50 por Roland Postle)
|
Citar
|
Managers picking Pips aren't aiming to lose Elite, they're plotting to win Master (typically). The game isn't just one season long.
Most seasons a Conti wins at least one race. If you're talking about winning the championship then frequently the winner picked Contis in the season or two before taking a trophy. Again, not one season long. I think the current situation is more interesting than the past where you were forced to spend on the top 3 brands every season just to compete, and anything cheaper was only delaying relegation even if you did score a few points.
The numbers who can be competitive in any group are limited by the 15 enforced relegations. Unless everyone begins the season equal then some of those 15 - and some of the 15 whose writing is on the wall the following season etc - are going to recognise it and plan appropriately. You could give everyone in Elite 500mil and Bridgies and some would still pick a Master driver and avoid scoring so they can take some cash down with them. I suspect managers making it to Elite are better at judging their odds of progressing than the average manager making it to Pro, and if their idea of progressing is winning a trophy it's easy to conclude they need to come back another time in better shape.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ July 28th 2020,03:19:06 ) the crown is being fought over by only 6
Six managers taking a shot at the championship is a dream. A lot of seasons we're lucky if there's two. It would be nice to improve that but it doesn't seem easy without dumbing the game down. The problem is: it takes a lot of resources to contend a title, and a long time to gather those resources. That means few people have the resources at any one time, and those who do have an incentive to conserve them if they don't have a very good shot at the trophy. By resources I mainly mean promo sponsors, regular sponsors, wallet cash, and driver stats (which get 'spent' by using spa).
[I used to think spa was the main problem but at least since PHA matching financial resources are a huge factor too. It may even be that spa & energy helps because it holds back the midfield and means more near the front with older drivers that are spaing constantly anyway can score more consistently and stay in touch with the title even when stronger managers are far up the road].
|
|
|
|
|
|
#5 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 05:31:52 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 05:33:19 por Josh Clark)
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2020,05:02:29 ) Solution: make a promo sponsor offer expire if the manager relegates before activating it.
This solves so many issues.
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2020,05:02:29 ) In fact this could be applied to all sponsor offers, not just promo sponsors.
All 100% sponsors perhaps. Or rather than that, force 100% sponsors onto the car when a spot becomes available.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 06:38:15
|
Citar
|
I think both of the suggestions from the OP make Elite even more attractive to try and make some cash before dropping back to Master.
How about this variation on @Jasper Coosemans (E):
You can only activate Promo sponsors at the level you promoted to.
So if you get a nice sponsor for promotion to Elite, and you really want to do the drop down, you'll have to reach Elite again in order to activate the sponsor
|
|
|
|
|
|
#7 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 07:00:08
|
Citar
|
Question: Would reducing the amount a promo sponsor gives, rather than have the offer expire, help?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 08:12:58
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Thijs Rieken @ July 28th 2020,06:38:15 ) I think both of the suggestions from the OP make Elite even more attractive to try and make some cash before dropping back to Master.
How about this variation on @Jasper Coosemans (E):
You can only activate Promo sponsors at the level you promoted to.
So if you get a nice sponsor for promotion to Elite, and you really want to do the drop down, you'll have to reach Elite again in order to activate the sponsor
This will result in managers going uo and down in elite and wait until their list is full with Elite sponsors and then use them all at once....
i find Jaspers idea not a bad one, it prevents people going up and down and horting these sponsors
|
|
|
|
|
|
#9 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 08:47:37
|
Citar
|
I feel obliged to reply to this as I'm 1 of the pipi guys in Elite.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ July 28th 2020,03:19:06 ) For me, Elite means the top 40 managers all racing to see who is best. The ideal is that anyone who reaches Elite or wants to be there should be ready to put the "pedal to the metal" and race hard.
This isn't true. Some people find getting into Elite is already an achievement and know they are at the top of their performance. But others need some more preperation before they can take a shot at the title and that's why they take a OBP tyre like Conti. Badyear used to fall into this category but the added dry performance bar and the higher importance of durability with the lack of overtaking possibilities makes this an alround tyre instead of OBP. But also perfect for preperation depending on how your plan goes (try to score in 1 race or being consistent).
So 40 people all fighting is a complete utopia.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ July 28th 2020,03:19:06 ) 32.5% of Elite managers are taking Pip's, Avonns or Yoko's for tires. The absolute worst tires to race on and surely a quest to LOSE, not win in Elite.
Dimitry Nechateillo (sorry for the mistakes) proved that retaining on Pipi is possible and Yug Desai even showed that you can score top 10 in Yoko's. So saying that those 3 tyres are only for losing isn't correct. Although most of the time it is correct to say that pipi is used to rebuild.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ July 28th 2020,03:19:06 ) 6 managers are possibly taking a shot at winning Elite.
As said by others, everybody following Elite closelyknows that the title is a fight between 2 people this season. The very rare occasion that 4 people start with the intend to get the title like last season is very rare. Because to do so you need everything in place. If you don't have everything, you will destroy yourself easily. This clearly shows why I'm picking pipi. I started last season with the lowest amount of money of the 4 and a driver that was going to retire. So I knew that I needed to get lucky or I needed to back of, but I always kept in mind to go down this season. Because simple the game has changes since the PHA update. Keeping your car alligned drowns so many resources it isn't funny anymore. But that's part of the game.
I could easily retain this season, but it wouldn't add anything. I steadily would get worse because compared to seasons ago (before or when I just starting playing this game) you might could build up in Elite but now that is close to impossible (I say close because the 2 seasons in Elite on Conti I did, I actually improved everything in my package with the exception of 1 part).
Does something needs to be done about this?
Propably yes.
Is this clear were the problem lays?
No, promo sponsors have something to do with it, PHA matching has something to do with it, people getting better generallyhave something to do with it, hoarding sponsors has something to do with it and propably some more things that just don't get into my mind now.
Is there a way to get more people trying to push for title?
I see many good ideas put forward here, but almost for every idea I can give a counterexample what can happen if you do it. SO the solution isn't a straitforward as one thinks.
|
|
|
|
This shouldn't come as a surprise, given a load of gameplay changes encourages it:
- Promo sponsors: Unless a manager is extremely skilled, staying a number of seasons in Elite is worse than Elite/Master/Elite, rinse and repeat, the latter giving several promo sponsors.
- Energy feature: The gap between an average and a top driver in Elite is huge. I think my driver was one of the best prepared drivers arriving in Elite last season, yet he had 40 to 50 CT handicap most of the races vs. many retainers' drivers due to the combo of lower natural energy management (still unprepared) and energy handicap due to pace training vs. Spa. Given the 2 options between a struggling season with BYs/Contis with a still handicapped driver, whose outcome is nasty if failed (just ask me), and a relaxed Pipis season while preparing a cheap driver for Master (coupled with the hoarded promo sponsor from last point and a further +1 promo sponsor when coming back in Elite), it becomes a no brainer: an uncertain attempt is a dumb move (again, just ask me).
- PHA matching enhanced: Whereas it's likely the intention was to reward planning, a byproduct is it rewarded brute force raw cash investment in redundant replacements as well. Costs in the higher leagues steeply increased afterwards (with lower rewards as well, because consistency, which is what ultimately brings bread to the table, is harder with PHA enhanced), championship attempts are reserved just for managers with extreme skill or extreme resources and also further unbalancing the decision between a legitimate expensive and risky BY/Contis attempt compared with a Pipis planned demotion.
- As an addition to this, and also a consequence of several of these gameplay changes, a manager in Master deciding between the struggle of trying to stay afloat long term (made it harder by the promo sponsors, increased expenditures due to PHA enhanced and even the Yokos' cost increase) or burning their resources with an all in promotion attempt, the right move is straightforward: promote even if unprepared, get a promo sponsor and then be another Elite Pipis picker. It's hard to blame these managers when the alternative is gameplay-wise dumb.
I'd dig deeper on this, tho, because whereas the more evident outcome is the Elite Pipis move, in fact at least that's an option struggling Elite retainers and unprepared newcomers have. For Pro and Master retainers, even if they are a bit better than par of the field, and mostly due to the same reasons (costs by PHA matching, promotion sponsors and wallet pressure by newcomers, increased with the in my opinion a step in the wrong direction Yoko's cost raise), there is no such a thing because one won't get rich with Pipis in Master/Pro (at least not while also developing the car), and some of the demotion from Elite perks are basically worthless in a demotion from Pro or Master. Those struggling guys are more occluded but more numerous than the handful of managers in Elite deciding what to do, and in their case generally there isn't even a good alternative other than head to Ammy (and repeat the cycle: get cash, get promo sponsors, put pressure on retainers from the higher leagues and so on).
|
|
|
|
I'm interested.. are there genuinely managers promoting unprepared, or relegating unnecessarily and re-promoting, primarily so they can get a promo sponsor? In my experience I've heard a lot of '..oh also I'll get a promo sponsor' type arguments where it's a sweetener to a promotion strategy, but not where it's the main aim. Even when Jan flitted between Elite and Master a bunch of times I think he said afterwards he didn't intend to quite so much, just the promotions kept being too hard fought.
Maybe I'm missing something, I know there are nice perks to promo sponsors but it still seems a very time-inefficient way to gather them compared to gathering regular sponsors, and getting the best ones even more inefficient, so I worry they're getting a bit too demonised here.
|
|
|
|
Problem 1: Being in the midfield is not healthy financially neither in Elite nor in Master.
Problem 2: A failed retention attempt in Elite can leave you in a very nasty spot (see above).
Problem 3: Even if 40 managers chose Bridgerocks and push every race, 37.5% of them will relegate.
Retaining in elite is hard - as it should be, so there will always be planned relgations to avoid the struggle, if not on pipis than on other tyres.
Maybe there can be an incentive for trying to retain, instead of relegating without a fight, but what could it be?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Roland Postle @ July 28th 2020,10:13:09 ) but it still seems a very time-inefficient way to gather them compared to gathering regular sponsors
I think you don't know how hard it is for non-bot managers to get regular elite sponsors let alone those who pay you 2M per race. ;-)
|
|
|
|
Proposal: If you relegate from Elite, you lose driver and TD.
I haven't thought this through too much by the way, but first wave of thought makes me think it could work.
I'll let you lot tell me what I'm not thinking of which makes it a bad idea.
|
|
|
|
The loss of TD and driver should then also apply to all relegations, not just from Elite.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Joachim Rang @ July 28th 2020,10:29:09 ) I think you don't know how hard it is for non-bot managers to get regular elite sponsors
I have some idea (even winning an Elite negotiation you can't help noticing all the casualties involved). 'Compared to gathering regular sponsors in the division below' I should have said. Relegating for resources generally I can fully understand. A lot of championships are fought partly with Master sponsors - and that's a good thing because it opens up the field quite a bit - but most of them are not promo sponsors to my knowledge.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Branislav Mihic @ July 28th 2020,11:07:30 ) The loss of TD and driver should then also apply to all relegations, not just from Elite.
Is that a major problem? Maybe it would need to be complemented by a reduction of relegation taxes to smooth out the effect, for example.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Sam Wainwright @ July 28th 2020,11:28:13 ) Quote ( Branislav Mihic @ July 28th 2020,11:07:30 )
The loss of TD and driver should then also apply to all relegations, not just from Elite.
Is that a major problem? Maybe it would need to be complemented by a reduction of relegation taxes to smooth out the effect, for example.
What about rather than simply completely losing a driver/TD, the OA limitation rules are expanded to include stricter OA restrictions which are specifically applied to relegations? Much like offering contracts when negative balance?
|
|
|
|
Some ideas here:
About the initial suggestion about suppliers i dont see it. Theyre not the maing thing anymore like used to be in the past. PHA is the boss now.
Another thing we need to put in perspective is that so many many people has improved their game. The difference between managers in different tiers used to be a lot higher than it is right now... so when the gaps are really that close, every single details has a lot more importance, making it a lot more difficult to "sucess", or whatever you call that in Elite.
That being said, i do believe i change might be need in Elite to smoothen things at least... Is not understandable to have only 4 managers that has been in Elite for uncountable seasons right now... All of them are Elite champions. Thats totally ridicolous if you compare it with lower tiers.
I dont know what change should be, but it has to be related to economics. If the desired effect is to increase Elite competitivity you have to put more money into Elites people, but allowing people coming from Master to steal their spots if theyre stronger and lose that Elite money advantage if you relegate in order to not have an edge over your Master fellow the next season... like people going for pipis and having extra "trainings" with a great driver ready to score first race for low salary.
|
|
|
|
The reason why people are taking Pipis is because Elite is HARD. You can try and retain on better tyres but if you fail (which some people necessarily will) then your account will take a long time to recover. I can speak from experience that the past few seasons (post Elite) have been the hardest challenge for me (trying to stay in Master while keeping a positive balance) - much harder than reaching Elite in the first place.
While I understand the concern and also some of the suggestions re promo sponsors sound ok, they just make Elite even harder than it already is, which is why people take Pipis in the first place! Also, it's quite tough just getting to Elite, if someone wants to reward themselves for that by improving their account for the future (i.e. the return to master), is that not ok? You do still want people to try and get to the top after all.
Some people may feel forced into taking Pipis because their promotion campaign was tougher than expected (as Roland mentions about Jan), and other people have had a long term plan that is specifically about getting to Elite and using that season to rebuild. Both should be valid. The alternative might end up being that rebuilding in Amateur is the only viable option so everyone does that and newer players don't get a look in at the lower levels anymore.
It's a shame that there are so many Pipis in one season, but last season there were only four, which I don't think anyone has viewed as a problem. Perhaps wait until we have a few seasons with >10 Pipis on the trot before decreeing that we need to make changes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#21 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 14:06:35 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 14:07:19 por Mark Pinnick)
|
Citar
|
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ July 28th 2020,11:51:11 ) What about rather than simply completely losing a driver/TD, the OA limitation rules are expanded to include stricter OA restrictions which are specifically applied to relegations? Much like offering contracts when negative balance?
Would that not be pointless, as anyone relegating would then have a worse driver than they could sign in the division they relegated into? It would make the default choice to be "lose driver".
Quote ( Joaquín Quintana @ July 28th 2020,11:52:26 ) Is not understandable to have only 4 managers that has been in Elite for uncountable seasons right now... All of them are Elite champions. Thats totally ridicolous if you compare it with lower tiers
Are you suggesting 10% of Elite being "long-termers" is too low?! I'd suggest the percentages are pretty stable across Master and Pro too; 45% of managers leave that level every season.
Quote ( Twig Fahaji @ July 28th 2020,13:10:07 ) It's a shame that there are so many Pipis in one season, but last season there were only four, which I don't think anyone has viewed as a problem. Perhaps wait until we have a few seasons with >10 Pipis on the trot before decreeing that we need to make changes.
Is this perhaps an unforeseen effect of hiding tyre suppliers? Would some of those pipi runners have made a different choice if they'd seen lots already going down that road?! But I agree @Twig Fahaji (M3); too soon for a knee-jerk reaction IMO.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ July 28th 2020,14:06:35 ) Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ July 28th 2020,11:51:11 )
What about rather than simply completely losing a driver/TD, the OA limitation rules are expanded to include stricter OA restrictions which are specifically applied to relegations? Much like offering contracts when negative balance?
Would that not be pointless, as anyone relegating would then have a worse driver than they could sign in the division they relegated into? It would make the default choice to be "lose driver".
Quote ( Joaquín Quintana @ July 28th 2020,11:52:26 )
I'm not meaning you drop the OA limit so low as to force somebody relegating from Elite to have to hire a pro lvl driver. But rather, something somewhere in the middle, to simply allow managers seeking to genuinely rebuild, the opportunity to do so, while at the same time, not allowing managers to yo-yo between tier divisions to bring higher lvl drivers back down with them than would've otherwise been available etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#23 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 15:23:59 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 15:30:53 por Maxim Kotov)
|
Citar
|
As I see it:
1. Championship Points are jewels in Elite. Which results in the midfield (serious players who keep pushing to retain) spending a lot but gaining nothing.
Solution: make scoring points easier by awarding them to top 20 places.
2. Winning sponsors contracts is crucial in Elite. Same as in previous point, midfield players lose negotiations, and suffer from potential income loss.
Soluton: add more sponsors and also make 100% and parked sponsors autofill the spot when it's empty, or quit negotiations if the contract is unsigned within 10 races.
3. Sponsors lose satisfaction and cancel contracts so easliy, and gain satisfaction so hard (you need to be constant top10 player for that). Another blow on midfield guys.
Solution: make sponsors lose satisfaction only if a player finishes in relegation zone (26th or lower).
4. As someone mentioned above, prize money gap between 1st and 40th is huge. 40th place in Elite gets as much prize money as 31st in Master. But this guy beat 37 players in his Master group to promote!
Solution: shorten the gap a bit making Elite 40th equal to Master 20th, e.g 13.5M.
5. "Cheating" with tyres (picking cheap tyres in high divisions or premium tyres in lower divisions) is unfair and against the racing spirit.
Solution: only 6 tyre brands available for every division. From Dunnolop through Bridges in Elite. From Avonns through Hancock in Master. From Pipi through Badyears in Pro.
|
|
|
|
Seems a lot of the problem stems from Sponsors, either being hoarded or the yo-yo effect from the free promotion sponsor.
I don't know if it would help but my suggestion would be to redo the sponsor system completely, which I think is needed anyway. In that hoarding should not be possible, i.e not accepting a sponsor sitting at 100% when a slot is available, and losing sponsors from others getting to "the goal" first neither, as that is a downer for many, many players and equates to a lot of invested time simply lost for absolutely no gain, and not as easy losing sponsors from a couple of bad results or randoms.
Because, well, seriously, the sponsor system is broken, and was from start really.
|
|
|
|
I would like to propose another way to limit 'sponsor hoarding':
with a minor change to the existing sponsor system, one could achieve unlimited sponsor places on the car, this way disabling 100% unsigned sponsors.
This inability to save up sponsors for when you may need them more would definitely result in higher swings in sponsor incomes, but I assume more result volatility is what we are aiming for here.
At the same time, one could argue there would be minor new management to follow - sponsor negotiations matching to a long term driver training.
|
|
|
|
What is the core issue here? People not trying to retain or people not trying to win the championship?
If you make changes you always hurts one group or style of play and helps another. It is the way of a competitive game and people will adapt. To encourage a style of behaviour you have to either increase the benefit or reduce the damage of a failed attempt.
An idea could be mid tier tires give a mini sponsorship deal for those in elite to take them. So their effective cost is only slightly higher than Pipis. Thus even if you expect to relegate you might take them to earn more cash in the season and this might mean you have the tools for a shot at retention without crippling yourself if you fail. Short of that style of thing people will always accept when they will likely demote because if the punishment for a failed attempt is deemed to high vs the chance of succeeding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#27 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 16:11:16 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 16:11:39 por Josh Clark)
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) Solution: make sponsors lose satisfaction only if a player finishes in relegation zone (26th or lower).
Yes please :)
I think it's unrealistic that even a 5 expectations sponsor would be unhappy with a 20th here and there, but to think a 2 or 1 expectation sponsor can possibly be pissed at you with anything other than a top 15 result is just unfair when it takes so long to get these sponsors and they are so unbelievably crucial to success in the higher leagues. Maybe unfair is the wrong word, but it certainly limits the options for gameplay.
It's no wonder people always arrive in Elite with not enough money to compete as they've spent the last X amount of seasons overspending to try and keep their sponsors happy ;)
All your points are good Maxim, I'm in favour of a lot of them.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) 1. Championship Points are jewels in Elite. Which results in the midfield (serious players who keep pushing to retain) spending a lot but gaining nothing.
Solution: make scoring points easier by awarding them to top 20 places.
This would mess with older game statistics too much, I think any point changes wont be implemented.
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) 2. Winning sponsors contracts is crucial in Elite. Same as in previous point, midfield players lose negotiations, and suffer from potential income loss.
Soluton: add more sponsors and also make 100% and parked sponsors autofill the spot when it's empty, or quit negotiations if the contract is unsigned within 10 races.
Adding more sponsors would be realistic, but it should mean, that lower leagues will have lower sponsors then as well for result to balance this. Imo it's very easy to get sponsors in Ama already because of the limit what was implemented seasons ago, even without that limit it was easy there. So would lower sponsors in Ama quite a bit while adding a few to Pro, a bit more to Master and the biggest amount to Elite.
Nothing to add about the 2nd part, quite neutral here.
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) . Sponsors lose satisfaction and cancel contracts so easliy, and gain satisfaction so hard (you need to be constant top10 player for that). Another blow on midfield guys.
Solution: make sponsors lose satisfaction only if a player finishes in relegation zone (26th or lower).
That's true to an extent - a lot of it depends though what answers you choose when negotiating with them. While I agree it's a bit too harsh, I'd go with ~20th place here.
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) 4. As someone mentioned above, prize money gap between 1st and 40th is huge. 40th place in Elite gets as much prize money as 31st in Master. But this guy beat 37 players in his Master group to promote!
Solution: shorten the gap a bit making Elite 40th equal to Master 20th, e.g 13.5M.
Then all leagues would need to have this kind of change and lower leagues as a result should bring less money... I think it would be hard to implement without private leagues and their testing or something like that.
Quote ( Maxim Kotov @ July 28th 2020,15:23:59 ) 5. "Cheating" with tyres (picking cheap tyres in high divisions or premium tyres in lower divisions) is unfair and against the racing spirit.
Solution: only 6 tyre brands available for every division. From Dunnolop through Bridges in Elite. From Avonns through Hancock in Master. From Pipi through Badyears in Pro.
I'm sure that people who would wish to relegate would pick the most cheaper tyres anyway, which imo is a bit absurd change and would only make things harder for people who wish to rebuild. If something like this would be implemented, then I'd only see it by lowering the tyre prices accordingly as well. For example Dunnos would be then twice as cheap in Elite, a bit cheaper in Master and same price in Pro. Same for Avonns in Pro, etc.
Generally changes are welcome, but my biggest concern here is that everything is getting more expensive season by season. First it was energy change (which alone didn't impact that much, but midfield players who trained their drivers lost money per race as a result), then we got promo sponsors, which I think helped a bit that situation, but then came the PHA change, which in return increased costs way too much in my opinion to be consistent. We didn't get any promo sponsor kind of thing after that to compensate it again, but instead tyres went even more expensive for midfield players.
So as I see it right now - it's currently quite discouraged to retain in Elite, as it was already hard to do it before while you also killed your whole package if you didn't succeed, so in return relegating on Pipis seem the more favourable choice, as you can then prepare already for next season to not lose your package as much as you would while trying to retain...
Edit:
Quote ( Malcolm Christiansen @ July 28th 2020,16:03:44 ) An idea could be mid tier tires give a mini sponsorship deal for those in elite to take them.
This could be actually quite interesting addition, for example every tyre compound has a certain objective for the season, if you complete it, you get a prize for it at the end of the season. For example (these examples are only for Elite at the moment) Badyear: Finish 2 races on points when there has been at least 1 rain lap in the race.
Contimental: Get 4 points finishes in a season.
Dunnolop: Have an average race finishing position 15th.
Bridgerock: Finish all races in top 10.
And so on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#29 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 16:18:24 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 16:27:40 por Lee Ifans)
|
Citar
|
If there are genuinely drawbacks to promotion sponsors in Elite and we want to get promoting managers onto better tyres then it seems that this has a straightforward fix.
Managers promoting to Elite get a tyre supplier discount in their first season on any tyres costing over $2mil a race.
I don't know how much that discount should be.
EDIT ok if it was 25% this season and you did Yokos too that would bring...
BR down to $6375000 per race
MI down to $5175000
HA down to $3750000
BY down to $2550000
CO down to $2250000
DU down to $1875000
YO down to $1425000
So essentially a manager could look at taking one tyre class higher than they do currently and if they know that cost saving is coming they can invest in other areas. Tyres aren't the be all and end all but if you want to giuve a one season boost, this seems the best way to do it. Another upside here is that managers relegating on Pips would get no benefit.
|
|
|
|
I think the argument that it would ruin records and historical data should only be used for minor changes. Something as big as changing who gets points will change the game on a massive scale. If this is for the better than it should be done. It sounds good to me but I obviously don't have the experience some others have. However I think if it does make the game better then the old game statistics can't get in the way of having a better game now.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
