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Thema: About taxes at the end of season |
56 Antworten
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#31 geschrieben Jul 25 2017, 08:16:33
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so the best idea if you do not want to promote is to invest everything over 50.000.000 into real-estate ... good to know
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#32 geschrieben Jul 25 2017, 10:24:31
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Quote ( Marcel Westner @ July 25th 2017,08:16:33 ) so the best idea
I wouldn't say that.
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#33 geschrieben Jul 25 2017, 10:38:36
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Reducing taxes by investing is not a bad idea if it is planned. The result must provide a benefit besides avoiding taxes, leaving you in the money that will not hinder the next season plans. Best to have that worked out before the the last race. ;D
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#34 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 12:29:56
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just wondering why i have to pay taxes every year for the same money which i've payed taxes already, it is like a property tax and not an income tax. I have now several years above 120 Millions and i will have to pay taxes on that continously until i manage to get to pro.
If i would pay only taxes on the real Net-Income it would be a bit less annoying runnign season after season just to get the taxes payed.
I cannot invest more money to get much real benefit in the game at the current stage
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#35 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 12:34:27
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Marcel,
I don't thing taxes are negotiable ;-) Luckily same rules apply for each manager :-)
And there's is a reason behind it.
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#36 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 12:39:03
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i know it is not negotiable, and the reason behidn is, is to invest as much as you can, however i don't see a point in investing now any more money and going bankrupt in a couple of seasons if i cannot promote to PRO.
Btw. the same outcome would be if you just pay taxes on the actual net income at the end of the season and not on the overal wealth but it has the benefit, that whatever you have saved in the past, is save - like in the real world ;)
anyway, at the moment i have my finances well under control, just wondering why the taxes are based on overall property instead of income
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#37 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 12:42:14
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Quote ( Marcel Westner @ June 27th 2018,12:39:03 ) ust wondering why the taxes are based on overall property instead of income
To balance the game. Imagine earning 1bln in AMA and promote with that cash to ELITE. What will happen?
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#38 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 12:44:30
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If someone plans their account efficiently there is no need whatsoever to have 100m+ The way Amateur is currently actually means that if you plan your account perfectly you will still have around 80m etc. So even with a perfect account you'll still pay taxes on 30m roughly.
The game needs balanced that if you plan perfectly this extra 30m or so doesn't exist.
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Quote ( Marcel Westner @ June 27th 2018,12:39:03 ) anyway, at the moment i have my finances well under control, just wondering why the taxes are based on overall property instead of income
Surely that's obvious?!
All you need to do is ask "what would happen if there were no wealth taxes?"
What do you think would happen Marcel?
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#40 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 13:12:48
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It is in my point of view a way to keep experienced managers from getting super rich, and somehow level the field, also to cover the amateur cash flaw
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#41 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 15:12:53
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Quote ( Marcel Westner @ June 27th 2018,12:39:03 ) like in the real world ;)
In the real world if a racing team has made that much money and run out of ideas to usefully invest it then the shareholders will want it back. Just think of it as dividend payment rather than a tax :)
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#42 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 15:17:51
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My shareholders would be seriously disappointed. That, or poor. Or both :D
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If there are no taxes and one AMA manager gets to Elite with 200 million... then 5000 managers will do that and only the best 40 will get to Elite. Same game, just with a lot more cash.
Why does people think that if the rules changes in their favour there will not be other people taking advantage of it?
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Quote ( Ignacio Belatti @ June 27th 2018,15:31:40 ) If there are no taxes and one AMA manager gets to Elite with 200 million... then 5000 managers will do that and only the best 40 will get to Elite. Same game, just with a lot more cash.
Why does people think that if the rules changes in their favour there will not be other people taking advantage of it?
And with no tax there's no upper limit. Stay in Ama for 20 seasons and promote to Pro as a billionaire. Along with 50 other people doing the same thing every season.
I'm not sure there's any way the game could self-balance that.
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#45 geschrieben Jun 27 2018, 22:34:56
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Quote ( Ignacio Belatti @ June 27th 2018,15:31:40 ) If there are no taxes and one AMA manager gets to Elite with 200 million... then 5000 managers will do that and only the best 40 will get to Elite. Same game, just with a lot more cash.
Level 12 cars everywhere lol
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#46 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 00:01:38
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Quote ( Andrew Watson @ June 27th 2018,15:41:58 )
And with no tax there's no upper limit. Stay in Ama for 20 seasons and promote to Pro as a billionaire. Along with 50 other people doing the same thing every season.
I'm not sure there's any way the game could self-balance that.
Wanting to change the rules by not achieving goals, only shows the wrong management.
I think.
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#47 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 00:32:24 (letzte Änderung Jun 28 2018, 00:34:18 von Mike Bennett)
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"A fine is a tax for doing something wrong. A tax is a fine for doing something right."
...The more you pay the better you are doing !
There is no logic to taxation , it is not to be understood but simple paid.
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#48 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 01:02:53
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Unpopular opinion: taxation is theft. There, I said it, come at me bro.
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#49 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 01:40:10
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Quote ( Daniel Mason @ June 28th 2018,01:02:53 ) Unpopular opinion: taxation is theft.
I agree that "taxation is theft." is an "Unpopular opinion".
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I also think taxation is theft. I do not think that different of Ayn Rand. And I do believe that the Laffer curve minimum would give you more than enough for the functions that I would require to a state to perform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
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#51 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 03:34:37
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I see no reason why not change to net gain taxation, in fact I think it could be fairer for the game and reduce cash hoarders.
Of course many things have to change to include into this tax your total assets as part of your capital gains.
So if your car is higher level, your facilities and staff are higher level then you shoyld be taxed
once you have that then new tax brackets should be set, as it normally occurs in any country
so maybe something like:
10% for up to 5 mill
15% for up to 10 mill
20% for up to15 mill
and so on...
It doesn't have to be so linear.but maybe even steeper as more net gains are made.
Again taxes only apply to the net capital gains
of course the ceiling would be set on the mythical:
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me....
Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all.....
Basically it complicates everything, as any tax system in the world is, and it would and would increase whining of endless managers that don't get the math of it or from managers with a "10 season" perfect plan.
So maybe it's better to keep it as it is, even though it helps cash hoarders, than complicate it more.
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#52 geschrieben Jun 28 2018, 14:20:21
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Instead of a linear approach.
Give managers a slight incentive to achieve a certain amount if thats how they want to play the game.
5% for every 5m after 50m. Starting at 20%
50-55m = 20%
55-60m = 25%
60-65m = 30%
66-70m = 35%
71-75m = 40%
76-80m = 45%
81-85m = 50%
86-90m = 55%
91-95m = 60%
96-100m =65%
101-110m = 70%
111-120m = 75%
121-130m = 80%
131-140m = 85%
141-150m = 90%
151m-160m = 95%
161m = 100%
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#53 geschrieben Jun 29 2018, 07:49:35
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50 Million net gain before applying taxes?
I would think it would be better to start lower,
With 50 million you can easily be at 250 million in 5 seasons rather than suffering with gaining 50 and loosing the same after taxes.
That will generate more wealth, taxes should start lower at a lower rate. Remember you are taxing capital gains, so even in a buildup season where you loose money you will not be taxed regardless if you have 100 million in the bank.
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#54 geschrieben Jun 29 2018, 08:48:42
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Eduardo, I think Michael wasn't talking about your taxes based on profit but about a new tax scheme based on the current one, just with tax grades according with raw cash (not net gains).
By the way, I like your idea quite a lot, plus it would be quite realistic. I even think a combo of your idea with a fixed tax (10%) for net gains combined with the current one (25% taxes for surplus above 50M) would produce a nice outcome.
For example, let's say a 50M constant net gain of cash in Ammy. Maybe a bit underestimated given you can save quite more than that, but still above the average. In that case the progression with the current tax system combined with your idea (but fixed 10% over net gain taxation) would be like this:
Cash cashTax gainTax
50 0 5
95 11 5
129 20 5
154 26 5
173 31 5
187 34 5
198 37 5
206 39 5
212 40 5
216 42 5
220 42 5
222 43 5
224 44 5
This scheme would get stable at 230M end of season cash, which is quite inferior to the 250M achieved with the current scheme (assuming 50M net gain per season again), and 200M if the net gains tax was 25% instead.
On the other hand, the problem with most tax schemes (unless they are a bit too complex, such as increasing taxes per brackets) is that they still encourage staying in Ammy for long. In my example, by staying in Ammy for 11 seasons instead of 6 seasons, a manager can hoard additional 50M, and 50M buy a lot of dough in the higher leagues (for instance almost enough to improve your whole set of facilities from 30 to whooping 70).
In that regards, I wonder if the full elimination of taxes altogether and instead a hard cap of cash would be a better idea. It would achieve several goals: reduce the handicap of Pro retainers vs. the fortunes brought by Ammy newcomers each season, reduce the advantage/requirement of staying in Ammy for long, if the cap is, let's say, 150M, in just 3 seasons you could go from zero to cap and, let's be frank, 150M would still be a huge advantage of newcomers from Ammy vs. retainers from Pro, so it isn't as if all of a sudden Ammy got harmed.
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Hi,
I still can figure it out . last seasaon from PRO to AMA:
Jul 25th 2021 End of season relegation taxes $82.437.842
$-36.706.489 TAX ??? this is not 25%
FINAL MONEY $45.731.353
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#56 geschrieben Sep 25 2021, 11:23:56
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7.3.1 Relegation taxes
Managers who relegate to a lower class will get taxed as follows:
For a relegation from Elite to Master 70% of the money above $50.000.000 will be paid as tax.
For a relegation from Master to Pro 70% of the money above $40.000.000 will be paid as tax.
For a relegation from Pro to Amateur 70% of the money above $30.000.000 will be paid as tax.
Example: if you relegate with $100.000.000 from Elite to Master, you will have to pay 70% of $50.000.000 which is $35.000.000 in relegation taxes.
The 70% taxes for relegating managers will be applied before the casual 25% taxes (explained below) which apply for all managers who have more than $50.000.000 after the season reset.
7.3.2 Casual taxes
Managers will get taxed on money over $50.000.000 at a rate of 25%. For example a manager with $65.000.000 will get taxed as follows:
$65.000.000 - $50.000.000 = $15.000.000
25% of $15.000.000 is $3.750.000. So the manager would pay $3.750.000 in tax at the end of the season.
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Quote ( The All Mighty Rules @ Whenever you need them )
Managers who relegate to a lower class will get taxed as follows:
For a relegation from Elite to Master 70% of the money above $50.000.000 will be paid as tax.
For a relegation from Master to Pro 70% of the money above $40.000.000 will be paid as tax.
For a relegation from Pro to Amateur 70% of the money above $30.000.000 will be paid as tax.
Example: if you relegate with $100.000.000 from Elite to Master, you will have to pay 70% of $50.000.000 which is $35.000.000 in relegation taxes.
The 70% taxes for relegating managers will be applied before the casual 25% taxes (explained below) which apply for all managers who have more than $50.000.000 after the season reset.
I just did the math for you and it checks out. $82.437.842 - $30.000.000 = $52.437.842
$52.437.842 * 70% (0.70) = $36.706.489
Consider yourself lucky for just having fallen short of $50.000.000, preventing you from paying even more taxes :P
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