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Thema: Driver Energy |
2267 Antworten
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,10:29:34 ) Quote ( Alex Tolmar @ September 23rd 2016,09:43:58 )
no notice
I'm curious. Most changed have always happened on a reset without prior notice. What difference would it have made if the announcement was made in advance of the change being implemented, given people would still go in to this season with the same information they had this season?
Think the main issue is not that changes are made it's how they are made.
Meaning some changes happen after requests / discussion have taken place on an open platform, where as others seems to take place completely unilaterally, with no real sense that the community has been involved in the descision or the result.
If you want to think of it another way think of it as being sucker punched.
Driver energy was created to solve one problem. I would have liked the opportunity to discuss this solution so that everyone could at least feel informed about the changes, who knows maybe a solution that would have been to more people liking could have been found.
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Quote ( Richard Carter @ September 23rd 2016,12:01:03 ) For those trying to promote it's a no brainer from the benefits I've seen and everyone will be doing it.
I will try to battle for promotion and don't intend on using it... I guess it will depend on the competition, maybe a few spa sessions will be needed, but no way do I see it as a "no brainer" even at this early stage.
I see spa training like the OBP strategy, a red herring. It's great and the game should have these options =D
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Quote ( Krasimir Ivanov @ September 23rd 2016,13:35:41 ) Damn, why do I always see the info after Kevin has ***poof***ed it :(
Anyway, my view on the spa training is that people with long term drivers will have to avoid it or their plans will be ruined.
Agreed, haven't used it yet, don't plan on using it. But never know sometimes plans have to be changed .
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,10:29:34 ) What difference would it have made if the announcement was made in advance of the change being implemented, given people would still go in to this season with the same information they had this season?
You have new information that something is changing, so you can build that uncertainty into your plans. Make them more flexible, leave bigger margins, etc.. I think that makes things fairer because, in any particular season some people will have their plans locked down much more tightly than others and those with tight plans will tend to be more disadvantaged by an unexpected change. The game is about planning and should reward that. 'Unknown unknowns' are much more damaging to that process than 'known unknowns'
Personally I'd still rather have a change immediately when it's coded than wait another season just for the sake of warning, even with such a major one as this. I'd guess at the start of S54 Vlad didn't know if it would be ready or not, or perhaps hadn't even committed to making it happen so there was no chance of much warning. But I can totally understand others feeling the reverse, that major changes should be delayed to give warning
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,10:29:34 ) Most changed have always happened on a reset without prior notice.
I don't think this is the case. Often a change doesn't really take effect until the next reset yet it's announced the one before because that's when it's implemented, that's still warning. Promotion/relegation changes, the group re-structure, the new promotion sponsor recently, Wet CT, slipstreaming, every new track we ever have, at least one of the 3(?) driver XP changes, favourite tracks. All came with some warning. But sure plenty of other stuff doesn't
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 23rd 2016,15:17:56 ) I don't think this is the case. Often a change doesn't really take effect until the next reset yet it's announced the one before because that's when it's implemented, that's still warning. Promotion/relegation changes, the group re-structure, the new promotion sponsor recently, Wet CT, slipstreaming, every new track we ever have, at least one of the 3(?) driver XP changes, favourite tracks. All came with some warning. But sure plenty of other stuff doesn't
Changes to promotion/relegation and group structure must be announced in advance, IMO, but aren't gameplay changes, as such. I was thinking along the lines of Tyre Suppliers (if my memory serves me correctly).
Promotion sponsor was announced the season it was implemented, really (if you promote this season you'll get one, no prior notice to change planning).
Surprised about wet CT, slipstreaming and favourite tracks - I don't recall getting told about them in advance, so maybe my memory isn't what it used to be. I thought they were all announced at a season reset.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,15:30:47 ) Promotion sponsor was announced the season it was implemented, really (if you promote this season you'll get one, no prior notice to change planning).
No, it was announced an entire season in advance of anything actually changing, and the entire point of announcing it was said to be not only to allow people to modify their plans but to *encourage* them to do so
Favourite tracks was announced 2 races before the end of a season, not a big warning at all but if you were planning to get a new driver race 17 (as many do) it was still enough that you could postpone the decision and not be locked into a long unsuitable contract
Hereby we would also like to give you a heads up for a small change for the new season. All drivers will be able to have up to 3 favourite tracks on which they will be able to perform better than what they do on the rest of the tracks. Every driver's favourite tracks will be a public attribute displayed in the driver's profile.
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 23rd 2016,15:49:58 ) No, it was announced an entire season in advance of anything actually changing, and the entire point of announcing it was said to be not only to allow people to modify their plans but to *encourage* them to do so
You know what I mean. They couldn't exactly just give everyone that promoted and say "surprise" :) They were told the season that promoting would be changed to include the sponsor :p
Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 23rd 2016,15:49:58 ) Favourite tracks was announced 2 races before the end of a season, not a big warning at all but if you were planning to get a new driver race 17 (as many do) it was still enough that you could postpone the decision and not be locked into a long unsuitable contract
Yeah, done some digging on they past changes. Not big notice periods, but yeah, mentioned beforehand. Don't remember it like that, but, hey I can be wrong :)
I am right about the big change though, yeah? Tyre suppliers was implemented at the start of a season with no prior warning?
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,15:55:22 ) I am right about the big change though, yeah? Tyre suppliers was implemented at the start of a season with no prior warning?
yes
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Quote ( Mikko Suhonen @ September 23rd 2016,16:01:30 ) yes
Yep and I thought they said later that any big changes would always be announced in the season prior.
We are proud to welcome you to the spotless new Season 17!
First we start with some bad news. Unfortunately due to the global economy crisis GPRO will no longer able to supply all managers with free tyres for the races. However we have been in negotiations with a few tyre suppliers, and finally closed a deal with them prior to the end of last season. So we are happy to announce that from this season you can use one of six tyre suppliers for a small fee depending on the supplier you choose.
Good luck and happy racing!
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,15:55:22 ) They couldn't exactly just give everyone that promoted and say "surprise" :)
Yet this is what happened with Energy, just it affected everyone rather than only promoters. "That spreadsheet you did for this season where you put 100CT in each box and carefully planned your parts buying and then spent your spare money on stuff before the reset, surprise, you wasted your time and you might be financially screwed"
You're quibbling over technicalities of a season [edit: Or maybe you're arguing that 2 seasons warning would have been more helpful still, which is true, but doesn't change the fact there was 1 season warning], I'm just arguing that time is helpful to plan for changes even when the details of those changes aren't known. In one case your budget begins to be affected 2 months from now, in another 6 days. Clearly you can react better with 2 months warning. Although obviously for different changes different timescales of warning are helpful. I don't think more warning of boost laps would have been much use, for example
I think tyre suppliers were sudden, certainly the expansion was
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Not quibbling it arguing at all, Roland. Just looking at the same thing from different perspectives with regard to the contract, but it's not exactly important or relevant :)
Notice would be nice, and in some cases would be very wrong not to have. But in the case of energy (like tyre suppliers), I really don't see anyone planning differently if they'd been told about it early.
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 22nd 2016,22:41:31 ) If in a few seasons all drivers look alike and are training Spa most races then I agree things need changing. Right now I don't think anyone can convincingly argue that'll be the case
I think most drivers will be underdone.
I agree, we don't know enough about energy yet, so it's hard to make any suggestions to improve the system, but I think even a blind man can see how detrimental spa training is to the driver development and a manager's long-term progress.
I had a bit more think about what Rob said yesterday. If spa is not erased, reducing its effect on energy could work, but not on its own. I think that doesn't go far enough. I'm thinking smaller energy jump combined with a limited number of spa sessions each season; 3 or 4 max (don't want to make it too easy) could work.
The idea behind spa is to be able to run at fastest possible pace for as long as we can. It's a necessity, a very cheap one, I may add, so everybody would love to do spa as much as they can. But if we have a limit, then all of the sudden we need to think about when it's best to use it. Similar to the limit on engines and g/boxes in F1.
I was going to put forward an idea about tweaking energy loss and recovery a bit. But as Roland pointed out, it's too early for drawing any valid conclusions. We need to know more. I think most of us agree that an Elite driver should be able to race at 100CT. Not every race, because now that there are no high-risk randoms, we have to have some other mechanism to mix things up. However, it's not right if a couple of Elite drivers can run 100CT and others can't. Yes, some tracks may allow for more people to complete full race distance without dropping pace, Serres might be one of those, but I imagine vast majority won't allow for it. So it's hard to string together a few good races when we need to. That's where spa training could be useful.
If the effect of doing spa is reduced, let's say down to around 15-20% gain, after some races we may be able to recover all energy, but some we may only get up to, let's say, 90 or 95%. This would give us more strategy choices. We could modify our CT to fit the spa training, e.g. you may choose to run lower CT in one race to preserve some energy for the following round, knowing the upcoming track may be more energy draining and you need 100% energy to push. A limited number of spa sessions would mean that we'd really have to think about when we want to use it. Some may want to string a few races together at the start of the season or at the end, or after renewing driver's contract, but others, especially those who are fighting for promo, may want to spread it to get a more consistent season. At the same time, we'd still be able to continue developing our drivers.
This was a part of the DE tuning I was going to suggest,where it could be possible for Elite guys to run some races at 100CT, but it is an idea on its own and applies to all groups. What's the thoughts?
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Quote ( Michal Szopinski @ September 23rd 2016,20:17:47 ) I agree, we don't know enough about energy yet
Yeah. Especially about lap times when energy is probably low but not yet zero. I'm very surprised about my today's lap times knowing all circumstances, risks and setup used.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 23rd 2016,16:27:09 ) (like tyre suppliers), I really don't see anyone planning differently if they'd been told about it early.
If I remember rightly tyre suppliers came in at no notice and I don't remember any increase income so you were expected to pay for tyres as well as what you had already planned. It's not like finances count in this game right?
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The situation in connection with energy system is very similar to that, when you learn a lot for an exam and you know that you are one of the best but the result depends on the lecturer's daily mood
f the teacher's mood is good, you will get best mark, despite of you don't know everything about the exam,(like Justinas(Elite), who always keep the energy end of the race) and if the teacher's mood is just bad, you will fail the exam despite of you know everything and learnt a lot
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Quote ( Veres Tamás @ September 23rd 2016,22:31:17 ) The situation in connection with energy system is very similar to that, when you learn a lot for an exam and you know that you are one of the best but the result depends on the lecturer's daily mood
f the teacher's mood is good, you will get best mark, despite of you don't know everything about the exam,(like Justinas(Elite), who always keep the energy end of the race) and if the teacher's mood is just bad, you will fail the exam despite of you know everything and learnt a lot
No, it's not.
It's more like an exam that you aren't prepared for. Some people will make good guesses, others will not.
Energy use applies the same formulas to everyone and most likely only the admins are 100% correct on how it is calculated.
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I was sure that, somebody will write this :D.... I'm only laiughing at this
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ooh now that is fast energy gain!!! :P
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Not spotted it just yet, but isn't it a bit unrealistic for an energyless driver to ho around slower than one with tech problems?
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Maybe not if Malfunction Risk is high and that driver still has energy?
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I'd suggest a driver slightly limited by his car is more capable than a driver who is incapable of driving.
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Like Alonso in a McLaren vs Maldonaldo in a Merc
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Quote ( Paul Gardiner @ September 24th 2016,09:20:32 ) I'd suggest a driver slightly limited by his car is more capable than a driver who is incapable of driving.
Have we ever seen a driver that all of a sudden becomes incapable of driving?
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Yeah, but cleaning the vomit out of his helmet at a pit stop usually fixed it.
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It was very common in the fifties and sixties, and drivers would often run out of energy on the most daunting street courses and retire long into early nineties (for example Dallas 1984 had only 5 finishers as most ran out of fatigue/crashed due to it).
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Watch what happened to Ali brownlee when he ran out of energy last week
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To be honest it was Michael Schumacher that set the standard for fitness and the culture we see today of drivers also being athletes in peak condition all comes from him.
He recognised that always being the fittest driver on the grid could be an advantage - or at least ensure you're never worse than someone else because of fitness issues. So when he wasn't racing he was having the gym / workout lifestyle that we now consider normal for drivers
Tiger Woods did similar for the golfing world. A lot of the top pros are pretty hench these days were as 20 years ago it was all man boobs & beer guts.
Still a few fatties on tour though but a lot less than used to be ;)
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Quote ( Phil Maunder @ September 24th 2016,10:40:34 ) Michael Schumacher set the standard for fitness and the culture we see today of drivers also being athletes Quote ( Phil Maunder @ September 24th 2016,10:40:34 ) Tiger Woods did similar for the golfing world.
I'm waiting eagerly for someone to do the same for the darts world =]
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Quote ( Max Watson @ September 24th 2016,10:43:02 ) I'm waiting eagerly for someone to do the same for the darts world =]
Wanking a lot is all the exercise they'd need. Wanking and carrots.
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in the case where only spa increases the energy of the driver, if you have poor driver, how would you have trained to be a better concentration, technical, and other parameters that are important attention about successful driver. I think administrators should consider.
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