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Thema: [F1] 2021 season |
1741 Antworten
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"39.12
If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
OVERTAKE"has been sent to allteamsCompetitorsviatheofficial messaging system, any cars
that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the
safety car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line atthe end of the
lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car
was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed
around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up
position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in
order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the
racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the
presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the
safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message
"OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will besent to allteamsCompetitorsviathe official
messaging system."
So all of the lapped cars, not just the 5 inbetween the two drivers fighting for the WC.
Enjoy your tainted title Red Bull.
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Quote ( Ivo Grigorov @ December 12th 2021,20:14:32 ) Quote ( Andrej Fülöp @ December 12th 2021,19:45:10 )
In case of luck, Revenge for 2008 when Glock was driving so slow and Hamilton did overtake him in last corner in Interlagos and won Championship title over Massa.(but yes, i think directors of the race first thought that will finish under safety car, becouse there was a fire on Latifi monopost, so they decide to not let the cars lapped to overtake safetycar, but it was cleaned faster and sure nobody wanted to finish the season under safetycar, so they did all for at least 1 race lap. It was all about situation on track. They do not preffered any driver. But i think they knew, that if they will not start it, Hamilton will be champion, and if they start it, Verstappen have big chance to be a champion. But its racing, and it have to be decided on track. If they would not start it, even when the track was already clear, that would be bigger disaster, as its a F1 racing sport.)
That was Adrian Suttil, but I agree with you.
No, it was Timo Glock, who was on slicks, and Hamilton did overtake him in last turn of Interlagos before finish line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhH93grvh84
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Quote ( Steven Gray @ December 12th 2021,20:20:33 ) Enjoy your tainted title Red Bull. Problem with only posting partial rules is that the first rule was that Masi (or at least the guy in his position) has the right to decide otherwise.
Edit: But like I posted ast week. the FIA wrote the screenplay and Lewis & Max were the actors without knowing it...
FIA screwed up a lot this season, hope next season is different!
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Both protest dismissed by the FIA
For the second one regarding safety car they have mentioned according to rules 48.13 overrides 48.12 which says when Race Director instructs the safety car to come in it has to come in regardless of other rules.
They have also mentioned that in past all teams have agreed to end race under green flags instead of a safety car if possible.
Third they have said article 15.3 gives the race director the power to decide deployment and withdrawl of safety car always.
So do you all think mercedes is going to courts with this?
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Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,20:25:54 ) So do you all think mercedes is going to courts with this?
Probably, but I fully agree with Finn's comments over the page to be honest. How things unfolded with the race director means it is an unfair outcome to Lewis as it stands, but would also be unfair to Max if the result is overturned since he didn't do anything wrong. I still think Mercedes should have been less defensive in their approach. Any kind of safety car in the remaining 20 laps would have put them in the situation they ended up in - the only reason we are talking about it really is the fact that it came down to the very final lap. If it had been 3 laps earlier that the Williams had ended up in the wall the only discussion would be about the blowing of a 17 second advantage withinin 15 laps and what an amazing job Checo did to shrink Lewis's 9 second gap to Max down to just under 2 with some amazing blocking on heavily worn softs.
Well, I still think its nice to see a new champion. I do think the race stewardship needs looking at though as others have intimated, I do think whichever side of the fence anyone here is if they support either one of Lewis / Max would agree that some decision making has been very much on the hoof. Trouble is I think Masi was always trying to do the right thing, but in doing so he has caused a lot of confusion with what is fair / unfair and what exactly the rules are. Last weekend in Jeddah his back and forth with Red Bull's Jonathan Wheatly was pretty embarrassing.
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Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,20:25:54 ) So do you all think mercedes is going to courts with this? They could go yeah... But I don't think it will change anything anymore.
Should better look to future and change things to be more clear so this kind of controversy would not happen again.
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Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,20:25:54 ) Both protest dismissed by the FIA
For the second one regarding safety car they have mentioned according to rules 48.13 overrides 48.12 which says when Race Director instructs the safety car to come in it has to come in regardless of other rules.
They have also mentioned that in past all teams have agreed to end race under green flags instead of a safety car if possible.
Third they have said article 15.3 gives the race director the power to decide deployment and withdrawl of safety car always.
So do you all think mercedes is going to courts with this?
So it's final! Even as a fan of just the sportts it's still an historic day for us Dutchees, only after May 15, 2016 ;) And it kinda feel wrong to say so, because I personally never supported any team or driver in particular and that includes Verstappen. But as said in previous post, when I started my F1 interest a Dutch GP winner was unimaginable, let alone this. So guess I'm a bit nationalistic here ;)
Let's put an end to all debate; we've ALL seen a fan-tas-tic F1 season and let's just hope that the next decade(s) to be all seasons like this (with a bit less controversy) rather than the quite boring seasons of the past decade. But let's not forget that Hamilton's 7 titles were NOT only because of little competition, but also because he's just phenomenal!
PS
Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,20:25:54 ) So do you all think mercedes is going to courts with this?
They could, but they won't. At least not if they are smart. It would do so much harm to that elusive 8 title hence Lewis career in general that it would surprise me if Hamilton does want to win it that way.
Simply put, if Merc did bring him in it's more than likely RB would have stayed out and he would been in the position Vertappen was in this race. Thihnk the ONLY reason RB did bring Verstappen in is because they had nothing to loose after Merc didn't under safety car conditions. Merc on the other hand already had been warned RB would under VSC conditions.
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Mercedes had a good chance to box in the VSC period as it remained for a good enough time. But they didn't took the risk.
Under safety car they would have lost the track position if they pitted after max and had the risk of race not starting again if they took time to clear latifi's car.
Today's showed how big of a headache safety car can be for a leader of the race.
Actually the problems with their strategy started when they copied Red Bull much early in the race by pitting for hards just at lap 14 meanwhile the medium could atleast go till around lap 25 comfortably. Red bull pitted as their softs were going away. It is not a good idea to copy when potentially you are on different tyres.
But Perez defended pretty well on those worn out softs and showed how good he is at tyre management and defending.
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Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,20:25:54 ) They have also mentioned that in past all teams have agreed to end race under green flags instead of a safety car if possible.
This is a pretty powerful argument (assuming it's true as Masi stated). But I still don't see the justification for selectively letting some cars unlap and not others. He claims the purpose of the rule is to stop the lapped cars interfering in the race between the leaders but that's the concern about faster back-markers wanting to unlap themselves and getting in the way of the leaders (for example Lando on fresher tyres might have tried to pass Lewis, and also Daniel might've tried to pass Sainz). All Masi's done is interfere himself to favour Max who wasn't racing the leader but now gets to and to hurt Sainz who doesn't get the supposedly pro-racing treatment. It's completely arbitrary. It seems doubtful letting all cars through would have changed the result but it's still a pointlessly bad decision.
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ December 12th 2021,21:20:38 ) It seems doubtful letting all cars through would have changed the result but it's still a pointlessly bad decision.
I dunno, Sebastian was quite a way back. If he had been allowed to unlap himself, Lewis may have been able to get beyond the second DRS detection point and defend for all his worth in the remaining twisty 5 or 6 corners. For me its just disappointing that we're talking about something other than a great race or great driving. Lewis was flawless in the first half of the race, Checo was indeed legendary with 2 and a half laps of extreme defence on extreme worn tyres, and Max was indeed faultless in doing what he did in the final third of the race, even if he did get some heavy dice rolls, he did at least make sure he was there to make it count. Under immense pressure, both drivers should be commended for keeping things pretty clean. Sure, Lewis and Max banged wheels in the opening laps, but the pair of them approached the race in the correct (sporting) manner so I am at least pleased we're not discussing the outcome over a race incident.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 12th 2021,21:39:54 ) Quote ( Roland Postle @ December 12th 2021,21:20:38 )
It seems doubtful letting all cars through would have changed the result but it's still a pointlessly bad decision.
I dunno, Sebastian was quite a way back. If he had been allowed to unlap himself, Lewis may have been able to get beyond the second DRS detection point and defend for all his worth in the remaining twisty 5 or 6 corners.
Sebastian Vettel was allowed to unlap along with norris,alonso,ocon and Leclerc .
Did you meant Stroll ?
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Beg your pardon, it was the other Aston, yes.
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Well...that race was embarrassing for F1.
How to lose fans, alienate competitors and make the sport look ridiculous to outsiders.
1) Have Clear Sporting Regulations
2) Don't apply the regulations/allow one person to rewrite them "on the fly"(Sometimes under pressure from teams).
3) Insist that's the way it's always been and that there are "secret, unwritten" parts of the regulations that can be interpreted only by the one man in 2) and in hindsight by the Stewards.
What a ******** mess!
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Quote ( Kshitij Sharma @ December 12th 2021,21:19:37 ) Mercedes had a good chance to box in the VSC period as it remained for a good enough time. But they didn't took the risk.
Under safety car they would have lost the track position if they pitted after max and had the risk of race not starting again if they took time to clear latifi's car.
Today's showed how big of a headache safety car can be for a leader of the race.
Actually the problems with their strategy started when they copied Red Bull much early in the race by pitting for hards just at lap 14 meanwhile the medium could atleast go till around lap 25 comfortably. Red bull pitted as their softs were going away. It is not a good idea to copy when potentially you are on different tyres.
But Perez defended pretty well on those worn out softs and showed how good he is at tyre management and defending.
Mercedes did the logical thing copying RedBull for the first stop. They were racing Max and didn't want to risk anything. The decision to not pit during the VSC looked to have paid off, Max was 12s behind when Latifi crashed. Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing, but I can see why Mercedes made the decisions they have. What happened next, with safety car and making rules up was shambles. And all of it for a last lap, Hollywood style showdown.
It was an amazing season, but it deserved a better finale. The last three races have been controversial, and FIA are the ones to blame.
Well done Max, and props up to Lewis on how he handled himself after the race.
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Max max max max super MAX!!!!!!!!!!!
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In the middle of all the controversy, can we just take a moment and appreciate how fucking good work Sergio Perez did today, altho it was in the end for nothing. Wasn't the first time either. Such a beast at those tense situations.
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Quote ( Petrus Taskila @ December 12th 2021,23:59:41 ) appreciate how fucking good work Sergio Perez did today
100%
Quote ( Petrus Taskila @ December 12th 2021,23:59:41 ) altho it was in the end for nothing
Wasn't for nothing he basically won Max the title there, without Perez's defence Hamilton would of been so far ahead he could of pitted comfortably and kept track position with both the VSC and the safety car.
Hopefully Russell next season will do a better job in the 2nd Mercedes than Bottas did this season
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 13th 2021,00:15:58 ) Hopefully Russell next season will do a better job in the 2nd Mercedes than Bottas did this season Hopefully he acts like Nico
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 13th 2021,00:15:58 ) 2nd Mercedes
You say that like you don't expect him to rise to the challenge :) I have high hopes for George next season. Either way, I think he will at least mix things up and be a genuine competitor rather than a ghost driver.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 13th 2021,00:37:39 ) Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 13th 2021,00:15:58 )
2nd Mercedes
You say that like you don't expect him to rise to the challenge :) I have high hopes for George next season. Either way, I think he will at least mix things up and be a genuine competitor rather than a ghost driver.
I think he will rise to the challenge, but I also think he will have a bit of a long game mentality and not want to rock the boat too much
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 13th 2021,00:37:39 ) Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 13th 2021,00:15:58 )
2nd Mercedes
You say that like you don't expect him to rise to the challenge :) I have high hopes for George next season. Either way, I think he will at least mix things up and be a genuine competitor rather than a ghost driver.
I wouldn't be surprised if he (George) dominates Hamilton in qualy right from the bat, considered how often Bottas was really close already. That's how good I consider he really is (plus easily beated Bottas last season in the same car for the 1st time).. But on the other hand Hamilton has an insane amount of poles of course...
Pure race pace however remains to be seen. I mean there Hamilton does have that extra that so many good qualifiers have not... And I think this season that became more cleare than ever before.
PS @Stuart Foster (R34) and @Peter Willmore Thanks for being objective. My flag somehow always makes one a fanboy to many no matter what is said, so I often choose to stay out (except today ;) ). Seems like you enjoyed and appreciated the season as much as I did, despite the anthem that was (or would be) played in the end.
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What a farce. I'm gutted, the best driver of the season has won the championship and I'm gutted.Verstappen fully deserves his crown but the FIA have turned it into a tainted crown.
Why they felt the need to do what they did I don't know. If Mercedes now stick to their guns with this appeal then I fear for the integrity of this sport, I dread to think how many fans have been lost when the sport should be at an all time peak.
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Quote ( Tom Hughes @ December 13th 2021,01:45:55 ) What a farce.
Welcome to the world of F1..
This is exactly what the rest of the world has been shouting since the introduction of the hybrid engine..
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There were backmarker(s) in front of Sainz at the restart, effectively protecting Max from Sainz. There's no way this result should stand if Mercedes go to court. It's a clear breach of regulations. Masi has overriding authority over the other stewards but he can't make up rules on the fly tho.
Mercedes should see if they can recruit Ferrari for the protest because it was unfair on Sainz to have backmarkers. As a pay back for red bulls protest against their engine in 2019.
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Another half glass full perspective alert... A championship may be decided by one race, but it is not won in a single race. Both drivers could have done more throughout the season to avoid a final race showdown. There might be controversy on the officiating, but all in all Max or Lewis could have done more throughout the season to avoid a situation like this.
I have thoroughly enjoyed the season. It has generated a keen interest in talking points and memories. I have many friends who don't watch f1 talking about it. It is safe to say we will be
talking about the Max vs Lewis season of 2021 for decades to come. Like any historic rivalry, there will be lovers of one side or the other (prost v senna, Schy v Hill, Mika v Schy, now Max v Hamilton). Let's be happy we got to live through it.
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Best season ever ruined buy the worst race control decision ever.
The race control should have red flagged the race, resuming it with 5 laps to go with a standing or running start, with the correct race order.
Everyone on fresh tires, for a mini race right at the end of the last race.
It would still have sucked for Lewis to lose the restarted race in the last 5 laps, after dominating it from lap 1, but the race wouldn't be tainted, as an end result.
Of course there would be moaning by whoever would have lost, but at least t wouldn't be tainted like this by race control...
It would have been just as tainted the other way, had the race ended under the safety car.... it would still be a race control fuckup.
That being said, Max drove to the absolute limits of that Red Bull and did nothing wrong, so he deserves the title per say, just not on a race control silver platter after Lewis dominated the whole race.
Congrats Max, awesome drive, did everything in his power to win and it played into his hands. :)
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So after the final race only position switches is that Sainz from 7th jumped to 5th and Leclerc from 5th dropped to 7th.
https://imgur.com/a/IDSEiQn
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 13th 2021,00:59:32 ) I think he will rise to the challenge, but I also think he will have a bit of a long game mentality and not want to rock the boat too much
I hope not in a way Bottas play long game...
If you want to win you need to show it right from first season or you will carry water for the rest of the time...
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All the thumbs down of my posts in the world doesn't change the facts that lie within. It's a totally tainted WC - it'll always have that asterisk after it.
Timeline of Masi's statements/decisions in the last few laps of the race:
1). Message all drivers that lapped cars will not be released,
As a result Lewis stays out, Max pits.
2). U-turn that decision once Max is back on track and the pack has collected. Lapped cars will be released.
3). Assume divine powers to release only some of the 8 lapped cars. A new procedure that is entirely out with FIA rules.
4). Select precisely the 5 cars to be released that will have the maximum influence on changing the probable outcome of the race. Not 1 car more, not 1 car less. If other selection criteria was used then what is it?
5). Omit the mandatory additional safety car lap that is specified in the FIA rules. Meaning this entirely natural and not in anyway engineered scenario can play out before the chequered flag.
I honestly think the FIA get absolutely slaughtered by CAS if Mercedes push this. So lets hope for the good of the sport they do.
Now, thums down away :)
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