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Emne: Make GPRO friendlier |
171 svar
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Quote ( Matt Kasar @ April 11th 2014,18:59:06 )
Just curious, do newly registered players get directed to read all the resources available? (rules, wiki, newbie guide, mentor thread)
I do believe you get a welcome PM with all of those links.
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yes and while you are on the waiting list I think it says to look at them.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 11th 2014,18:24:19 ) Is there a correct answer to how much you should pay your driver? Common sense says as little as possible.
Common rookie sense says "let's look at the top players. Wow, 5 times WC - 3mil driver, 6 times WC - 2,4mil driver...2,8mil...2,5mil, OK, I got it"
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On that, out of curiosity, Jordan, why haven't you joined the mentor program before suggesting these changes?
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 11th 2014,18:53:36 )
People would be shot down in flames for asking something that had been asked before (which all the basic questions obviously had), or asking something that was in the rules or Wiki.
Responses of "FOBY" or "Read the rules" or "search the forum" were very common (and they were the nice ones) with no indication of where exactly to read, or how best to find out by yourself or such like.
I miss those days :|
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While reading this post it is interesting to see both sides.
I am still a very inexperienced rookie myself and trying to figure out the complexities of the game as well. So, aspects have come easy while others are still very elusive. That is what makes the game interesting, fun, addictive, and frustrating.
I agree that is could be more newbie friendly, but at what expense? Maybe some of the driver salary information in the wiki is a little out dated, but it doesn't take much looking to see how you compare to the drivers in your group or higher levels either. My driver was the highest paid diver in my group and easily 12 OA points lower than the top player too. Common sense said I has paying too much and I adjusted.
Quote ( Matt Kasar @ April 11th 2014,18:59:06 ) Just curious, do newly registered players get directed to read all the resources available? (rules, wiki, newbie guide, mentor thread)
To answer that question, yes. Here is the welcome response from GPro:
..."You can start setting up your team for the races now, and we hope you enjoy your time playing this game with us. However before you start we recommend you to read through the "Game Rules" and "Newbie guide" sections. If you get stuck, or just want to have a chat, why not check out the forums? There are plenty of other managers there who you can chat to, and who will offer hints and tips on how to get started...."
I did join the mentor program after my first race and asked at least 3 questions per race and it was a big help. I also joined a team and have used the their tools and help as much as possible.
I haven't found a need to post a question to the forums because I have been able to find the answer somewhere else.
Lastly, just because you can't get exact data in the forums doesn't stop anyone from private messaging someone for help. Ask someone in your group, from your country, in another group, or a higher level for some basic pointers. I have had that happen to me twice already.
People are more than willing to help if you ask the right questions and the right way. However, don't assume they will hand you everything they know. They may only point you in the right direction.
Just my observations. Hope it makes sense. Thanks you listening.
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Quote ( Thomas Mckeown @ April 11th 2014,19:27:21 ) Thanks you listening.
I listened and all I heard was the fan on the computer. Then I decided to read and I agree with matt, well said Thomas.
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Jordan,
I haven't commented on the forums for a long time, but one thing i would like to point out.
When you join a good team, follow the mentor program and so on and on the following time schedule can be possible :
rookie = 4 to 5 seasons
amateur = 3 seasons
pro = 3 seasons
master = 5 seasons
and then maybe elite.
So don't count on less then 20 seasons to get to elite and stay there.
If you do it any faster, great changes you will go back down after 1 season, or you must be a combination of Einstein, Von Braun en Freud.
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I fully agree with Jordan. The game needs to be more friendly for beginners. To begin playing this game is like being put out in the woods and told to survive without any knowledge of how to make food or fire. The FOBY attitude does more harm that it have to do. A lot of people (including myself with my first try with this game) quit this game because of this attitude. Why I came back was my passion for F1.
I'm not against it eighter. I think having some "tutorial" races where the game explains "this and this are affecting that. Start with this numbers and find out the more exact number by yourself". The more advanced stuff should be fully FOBY.
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Quote ( Ante Svensson @ April 11th 2014,19:49:54 ) "this and this are affecting that.
The reference to wear and risks is on Wiki.
Quote ( Ante Svensson @ April 11th 2014,19:49:54 ) Start with this numbers and find out the more exact number by yourself"
Common sense says use a logical approach to the way you do things.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 11th 2014,19:52:01 ) Quote ( Ante Svensson @ April 11th 2014,19:49:54 )
"this and this are affecting that.
The reference to wear and risks is on Wiki.
There are more things than wear to consider. The number of 40 as high doesn't give much help. Does that mean that 39 is low or are 1 low? There should be "start with ## and start increase this number with ## to see the wear" and to that add some races that you can drive and see the wear and other things you should have knowledge about. This way it's kind of FOBY but with some help with what to look for
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I wont say GPRO is hostile for new comers. It is just daunting and overwhelming. For me, after 11 seasons, it still is.
I joined a team in my first season and that was my saving grace. Alot of things we worked out together or joined forces with other teams to figure things out. We also traded info and formulas with other teams. And that is how we learn... To do it alone is, I would think, almost impossible.
But I can say that somethings is very difficult to work out and you need, not only alot of data, but also a big mathematical brain.
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Just adding a small insight to what I think about newcomers to GPRO. I think GPRO is a hostile environment to them as when they ask a question on the forums, everyone is willing to write FOBY, and I can guarantee you no one will know what that means first time they see it, but not a not lot of people are encouraging newbies by suggesting ways to how to FOBY. Sure, they will be pointed to the guide, or wiki, but a short, concise answer WITH the link to the according guide is much much more inviting.
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F1 which isnt GPRO, just as GPRO isnt F1, its hostile as well...
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I can understand where Jordan and Ante are coming from and Hein got it spot on with Quote ( Hein Joubert @ April 11th 2014,20:10:05 ) It is just daunting and overwhelming Though usually you'll find a few friendly faces here who are willing to help you out and teach you what they know, it can feel frustrating at first, but once you get to grips with the system, you'll find it a lot easier to be competitive.
As for Winkley, he's just intimidating anyway, but has a heart of gold really and walks O.A.P's across the road in his spare time ;)
Quote ( Hein Joubert @ April 11th 2014,20:10:05 ) But I can say that somethings is very difficult to work out and you need, not only alot of data, but also a big mathematical brain. Well i'm screwed for life then :)
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You know what the most important thing is?
The game MUST be simplified when it's introduced to new players. The mentor programme is good, but I'd like to see a tutorial version of the game for rookies in their first season. It would include little popups in all the important areas (practice / qualify, driver profile, driver market, sponsor screen, etc), for example.
KISS = keep is simple, stupid...
I don't know why everyone tries to overcomplicate EVERYTHING but that's not how it should be.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 11th 2014,20:21:58 ) You know what the most important thing is?
The game MUST be simplified when it's introduced to new players. The mentor programme is good, but I'd like to see a tutorial version of the game for rookies in their first season. It would include little popups in all the important areas (practice / qualify, driver profile, driver market, sponsor screen, etc), for example.
KISS = keep is simple, stupid...
I don't know why everyone tries to overcomplicate EVERYTHING but that's not how it should be.
The principle of that is great, but it would require a lot of programming to implement such a change and it would be doing nothing but offer the information that is already available in a different way.
Yes, people don't always read everything and I totally agree that a more friendly way to get people to grip with the basics would help. But that's exactly what the mentor program is for, and exactly what it should be doing.
The tutorial suggestion is great in principle, but it wouldn't add anything new apart from a different way to present the same information.
So the question is is that worth the effort of the admins to spend so much time doing such a thing with everything that is already in place? If a person isn't happy with what there is already, and would like a "pop up tutorial guide", are they more or less likely to be a long term player?
I don't know how much time and effort is required to make such a thing to make a judgement on if it is worthwhile or not. What I do remember is the words of a newbie called Toygun Senler when he was a new player...
Quote ( Toygun Senler @ April 18th 2007,10:18:25 ) Hello to all other managers and sports fans.I have recently obtained my team and it will be my first season. So far, it seems like a perfect game and really fun. I have been reading the rules, faq, forums etc everthing for the last 2 days. You name it and I read it:) After all this loading of info in a short time I still have a few questions.
So do the admins spend time and effort creating a pop up tutorial catering for the lazier player, essentially (as it would give no more info than those that make the effort to read and search), when these players are less likely to be long term players?
What do you think?
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 11th 2014,20:40:18 ) The tutorial suggestion is great in principle, but it wouldn't add anything new apart from a different way to present the same information
90% or even more of new players are either too lazy or don't have the time to read enormous lumps of text. The guides are useful, but complicated if you're reading from the perspective of a completely fresh player, especially at a younger age.
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If you read back on 'mentor general chat and ideas' I think this was suggested but I can't remember what was said.
@ Luke - putting screenshots of the game might make the guides more interesting. The best books are the ones with pictures :)
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Quote ( Alex Nikodem-Wing @ April 11th 2014,20:43:57 ) @ Luke - putting screenshots of the game might make the guides more interesting. The best books are the ones with pictures :)
There already is a screenshot page for gpro:
/gb/Screenshots.asp
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 11th 2014,20:42:59 ) especially at a younger age.
I came here with 13 and had no idea what all that stuff means :D But there is still the mentor program. I think we should really put this more in the foreground, like a small pop-up when the manager registers or an announcement on the Home page...
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Quote ( Jordan Bell @ April 11th 2014,18:18:15 ) According to the Wiki, it is 2-3 Million per race. This is exactly my point: it is covered, but the info is wrong and should be corrected. No answer is better than a bad answer.
I'll try to be as friendly as I can.
quote from Wiki
But how much do you pay these drivers? Well as little as possible really
but generally the maximum you should pay is around $3mil salary (and that’s per race) otherwise you may struggle.
A salary of $1mil to $2mil per race would give you a much better chance of completing the season without encountering money problems.
Gpro is friendly. Although coming up with accusations based on falsified information may turn the tables quite quickly.
There are always people who make the environment unfriendly towards themselves.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 11th 2014,17:56:45 ) Whilst I like hot dinners handed to me on a plate, there is nothing like the satisfaction of having prepared and cooked that hot dinner yourself. Takeaways and ready meals make you fat and lazy.
Bugger that just get me a maid to cook me dinner and I will be happy.
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Quote ( Jordan Bell @ April 11th 2014,17:33:13 ) How much does a part cost for each level?
This literally takes at most about 2 minutes worth of research and a calculator before you start to see trends. If someone can't be bothered to work this much out on their own then they are going to have a very, very bad time with this game.
Quote ( Ante Svensson @ April 11th 2014,19:49:54 ) The FOBY attitude does more harm that it have to do. A lot of people (including myself with my first try with this game) quit this game because of this attitude. Why I came back was my passion for F1.
GPRO is not F1!!!
Just kidding. I mean, it's NOT F1, but I'm joking about bringing it up in that context.
Anyway, I do think that you're right about the FOBY attitude to an extent. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone ask a simple question that really wouldn't be considered a FOBY item and then get a half dozen responses, all saying "FOBY". In my opinion, many people in this game like to hoard information and lord it over the people who don't have it, and that's just silly, and it does make the game unfriendly.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people who would just prefer to be spoonfed everything that you need to know to excel at this game and not have to do any testing/planning/discovering on their own. There has to be a middle ground, but Jordan has chosen some incredibly poor examples of so-called "forbidden knowledge" to make his case with.
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Quote ( Jordan Randall @ April 11th 2014,20:18:38 ) As for Winkley, he's just intimidating anyway, but has a heart of gold really and walks O.A.P's across the road in his spare time ;)
If I had any street-cred before, I no longer do now. Thanks. ;p
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 11th 2014,23:02:26 ) If I had any street-cred before, I no longer do now. Thanks. ;p
Don't worry you didn't ;-p
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No loss, so no harm done. :)
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 11th 2014,23:02:26 ) If I had any street-cred before, I no longer do now. Thanks. ;p
It's a shame you can't choose your own font size. Otherwise your font size for "If" would exceed the bandwidth :P.
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