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Emne: [Idea]Safety car |
308 svar
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 3rd 2018,22:00:01 ) Instead, as Eduardo certainly pointed out, there wouldn't make any sense at all to stop at a SC condition in GPRO.
You have come to the same conclusion because you both are working with the same narrow mind set. Strategies in Gpro with SC will not be the same as with Gpro without SC. What you are doing is thinking of a strategy that is only working with Gpro as of today, optimized only for no incidents, without any margin, and very inflexible.
Gpro with SC will take strategies a bit towards how mix-weather strategies are working in Grpo today. Like in real racing we would have pit windows, larger margins, more flexible strategies that will work under a larger set of circumstances.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 3rd 2018,22:00:01 ) To make things worse, setting a flexible enough strategy to maybe succeed at this means the strategy was sub-optimal to begin with, and the more flexible, the more suboptimal.
First I start to apologies as you proved that your mind set wasn't locked on too narrow. You can see what is needed.
But make things worse? This is the best part as it will force another compromise to the strategy. Go fastest possible in case of no SC or a little slower and be more flexible to take advantage of a SC. It will force another decision to the game and make managers judge for themself how much flex is needed (and how much they can afford) between different tracks. How can that be bad?
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Quote ( Stefan Olofsson @ October 4th 2018,00:28:19 ) You have come to the same conclusion because you both are working with the same narrow mind set.
That's not the most polite way to address somebody. Especially given both Eduardo's and my post showed we are aware what changes would be required in order to make it work, so it's clear we know that.
My point, and most likely Eduardo's as well, is that it wouldn't add anything interesting. At the current state a strategy means optimizing a set of variables with the (usually) goal of ending the race at the best possible position. The proposed SC idea would add additional variables which would require the change of several strategical options (mainly those that Jukka stated) and would move the goal bar due to the added variables. More complex? Definitely. Rewarding more managers with better grasping and analysis? No doubt in long term. Also the eventual regrouping of the pack after a SC would add an additional strategical dimension, because grid position would be less important than it's nowadays, so I like that part a lot.
However, there are the cons as well. It would add more variability to the race results, and that's bad because more variability means lower consistency and consistency is required at the current economic structure of the game (which is also the reason I don't like that many tyre brands being available), because, as you pointed out, you'd require going to suboptimal strategies in order to benefit long term. Also it would require more race preparation, which is something I'm not too comfortable with. You could argue it isn't mandatory, but that's a handicap nonetheless. Finally, and not less important, development time is a limited resource. There are many things I'd like to be addressed first, some of them with probable better reward player retention and attraction wise, such as the new race engine, private leagues, sponsorship rehauling (which has been delayed for many years already), economy balance tweaking and other stuff. Safety cars, even with additional strategy options, wouldn't mimic real racing SC situations unless very finely graded stuff could be set anyways.
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In the meanwhile... Real life motorsport is moving away from using SafetyCar
2 main reasons:
1) SafetyCar itself imposes danger
2) SafetyCar is an unfair element
So.. instead there are VSC and Slow Zones (implementation depends on the event)
As example have a look at this article:
https://www.dtm.com/en/news/new-slow-zones-enhanced-safety-a...
Personally I just don't see a reason to implement such random elements here, since there is no danger of injury or casualty to any of the drivers or track marshals
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 4th 2018,01:14:45 ) That's not the most polite way
I said in the same post that I was wrong, that it wasn't the case and apologised to you. One could by that read that it was some humor in it but I can fully understand if it went through undetected. If you still are offended I apologies again.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 4th 2018,01:14:45 ) It would add more variability to the race results, and that's bad
I agree, and SC could be a way to replace some of that pure randomness with randomness that we have some control over, keeping the randomness somewhat constant.
I think I know your point of view, and you know mine. Jukka has already axed it so it doesn't really matter unless it entertain us. We have some differences in value and importance of different game mechanisms but I see no problem with that.
Peace.
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ October 3rd 2018,22:00:24 ) There definitely are cases where I would order to pit when safety car comes in, especially if it was coupled with some sort of Don't pit if less than X laps from pit/start (and maybe Don't pit if less than Y laps from finish).
In current engine the safety car would probably mean nullifying all gaps, which would be impossible to show in the new screen if there are 10 laps to last car. In the new engine it might be more realistic, but I would say it's not going to happen.
Jukka, I understand the concept is difficult to implement with the current race engine, but it is not impossible to do it. It would be similar to reset the gaps of car to 0.5s like at the start of the race.
We are missing huge advantage of it that it can bring with marketing of the game. Like @Hans Barf said, people at the top will not be comfortable as they might lose the race to rookies. More rookies winning the races or performing better will only better market the game.
In scenario where we are today with saturated number of users of the game overtime, such changes would add the spice and help bring in more managers to the game adding more ad revenue to the game to function better.
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Quote ( Chitral Gandhi @ October 4th 2018,03:57:08 ) We are missing huge advantage of it that it can bring with marketing of the game. Like @Hans Barf said, people at the top will not be comfortable as they might lose the race to rookies. More rookies winning the races or performing better will only better market the game.
Except it won't cause inexperienced managers to perform better over the long run as they will still lack all of the other game knowledge which creates a competitive package. A safety car might bunch the field up and inconvenience some top managers sure, but ultimately they will still succeed.
I think the opposite would be true actually. Inexperienced managers who are not deeply attached to the game would likely be put off by their races being ruined by an unforeseen safety car, just as many are put off by the existing randoms (how many threads are there on the forum of rookies being mad at having a random?).
Now I'm not saying that for every change the game should be most concerned with how it will affect inexperienced managers as I think the ones who stay generally like the game for what it is. But to say this helps inexperienced managers is something I simply do not agree with.
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Quote ( George Slater @ October 4th 2018,04:13:35 ) Except it won't cause inexperienced managers to perform better over the long run as they will still lack all of the other game knowledge which creates a competitive package. A safety car might bunch the field up and inconvenience some top managers sure, but ultimately they will still succeed.
Inexperienced managers who are not deeply attached to the game would likely be put off by their races being ruined by an unforeseen safety car
I think this is one of the most interesting aspects of SC, it's so multifaceted. For a single race it will definitely bring the inexperienced managers closer to the top, let them mix it with the more experienced and sometimes even upset them. In the long run the experienced will have the upperhand.
But I feel they both can use SC to their advantage because they have different goals. The inexperienced is looking for a single good race while the experienced looking for a good championship. As the manager experience grow the goal will shift and advantage from SC will follow.
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Quote ( George Slater @ October 4th 2018,04:13:35 )
I think the opposite would be true actually. Inexperienced managers who are not deeply attached to the game would likely be put off by their races being ruined by an unforeseen safety car, just as many are put off by the existing randoms (how many threads are there on the forum of rookies being mad at having a random?).
George, my question to you is how often do drivers take pitstop because their helmet needed to be changed mid race in real F1 or steering wheel needed to be replaced or rear wing broke when wear at the start of the race was 10%. These things never happen in real F1, so using Safety Car connects people with real world rather than fantasy world problems. Managers will be able to relate such SC experiences to real F1 instead of fantasy problems which will get annoyed to.
I have been a manager here long enough to understand the business model of this game, but we need to make a shift towards the direction where people feel more connected to reality else at some point this business model will fail. Just like Disney they could simply keep creating animated cartoons and people will stop watching after they grow up but they produced Marvels series and characters which help people in adversity and make the audience feel connected to real life human.
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Just thinking:
Current randoms (no SC):
[X] people pissed off
Randoms with SC:
[X multiplied with 2 or 3 or 4 ... or 30 (or more?!)] people pissed off
Do we really believe GPRO would ever start with this ...?
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