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Teema: GPRO Points System-Will it change? |
2971 vastust
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1. That is a matter of opinion. Sion is perfectly correct in his statement that those who retain is better using the measuring stick of the existing system. Given the OBP issues as a bad strategy, there is already incitament for consistency. Rather stupid then, imho, that there are two conflicting feedback loops in place. 2. Ever heard of not re-inventing the wheel? 3. See 1, conflicting feedback loops. Subjective whether this is intended bait to lure people into long-term failure or simply a design flaw. 4. To start with, your point has nothing to do with that theory at all. I don't have statistics on how large a percentage of rookie that don't score in a season but you can probably congratulate yourself on being a better than average manager.
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1. The fact I was referring to was that the dispute over which manager is superior is the main thing driving this debate :) A large percentage of the most successful (addictive?) games are those of the 'sandbox' variety, i.e. those in which the player can do whatever he or she wishes. In GPRO managers are at liberty to approach each season however they see fit - whether their objective is short-term fun or long-term planning. However the 'measuring stick' of (immediate) success is the same for everyone. The season standings table is the meadow in which all managers frolic. As in most pursuits, those who succeed are not necessarily the 'best' overall, but the best at utilising their surroundings/circumstances to achieve their ends. There is nothing unfair about a manager with 17*9th places and $90m relegating in favour of a manager with 1 point and $10m, because they both knew the rules under which they were racing. If the former manager was unable to cope with the OBPer then his was the poorer immediate strategy.
2. Oh right, how silly of me. That must be why all other forms of motorsport use the same points system - no use in re-inventing the wheel :)
3. See 1. Conflicting wossnames or not, the managers are entitled to do what they like within the rules set. They know how the standings work. Those in the red zone failed to adapt, or could/would not utilise the resources given.
4. I think a far larger proportion of rookies score than you think. Mistakes from other managers are common in rookie, and whacking up the risks is something almost everyone thinks to try. Yes, it lands them with other problems (which they sometimes then post on the forum about) but their appetites have nonetheless been whetted. Disclaimer: this situation is slightly different in elite, of course, but it would perhaps be a bit tricky to introduce a new system for elite only.
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Pal straight up question mate, whose fault is it if i relegate?
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Maybe Rookie could get the New F1 system, because only 3 people can no promote, would balance things more
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Quote ( Dylan van den Berg @ March 22nd 2012,14:25:11 )
Maybe Rookie could get the New F1 system, because only 3 people can no promote, would balance things more
Would **** up point statistics 1000%
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1 point for pole position and 1 point for fastest lap.
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ March 22nd 2012,14:24:22 )
Pal straight up question mate, whose fault is it if i relegate?
Yours, I've never claimed otherwise. As I said above, Sion is perfectly correct that you play by the measure in place. Change the measure and you'll also have a changed behavior. However, part of my point above is that it is all subjective. There is NOTHING objective about don't fix what isn't broken.
I believe it is possible to create a point system that the majority would feel was more suitable than the current one. Will it fix a whole lot of issues, no. Could it possibly make some things a tiny bit better, yes.
I'll leave it here, these discussions are always unfruitful because there is a substantial share of players that are not willing to lift their sights a tiny bit to see if there might actually be possible to change the game for the better.
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I was merely going to say that I think everyone understands the concept of one big push strategy. And if they can't prepare for it, do they really deserve to be in the group they're in?
Which was essentially my retort to anyone using the OBP as a reason to change the system, It clearly isn't.
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ March 22nd 2012,13:47:36 )
can relegate "better" managers - hardly.
lol this is so 20 pages ago...
The whole 17 9th places in elite is sure a hell much harder than then 1 8th place, no matter how much people want to deny it...
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ March 22nd 2012,15:03:28 )
Which was essentially my retort to anyone using the OBP as a reason to change the system, It clearly isn't.
Missing the point a bit there I believe. Since the biggest effect of a point system change would be to the relegation battles, then OBP naturally becomes a part of the discussion. But 'better' managers don't get relegated because they got screwed with a puncture while comfortably leading their big push race, or when some other fellow really lucked out with a podium with a race full of highly unlikely weather changes. Better managers adapt, and are prepared, to those situations no matter what the point system is.
But when relegation still in many cases is decided by one (1) best race of the season for the mediocre managers just below the midway line of the group, then it's hard to deny luck plays a rather big part between those very even managers that have a difficult time to score a single point during the whole season no matter how hard they try (whether they have resources to push most of the season or just in a few races).
Wider range of point scoring positions should (would) decrease the luck factor in tight relegation battles, atleast slightly. What it wouldn't do is destroy the OBP tactic, done well it would still work as well as before (aka Jos Roestenberg style). In some cases OBP would change to 2-3BPs, and I quess that's where it becomes a matter of opinion. I for one would like it.
And of course my suggestion for the point scoring system, the good old MotoGP point system;
http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Basics/points
Edit: I don't find a 15 point scorer range optimum for a 40 car grid, I find it to be the bare minimum. I'd think that even without any relegations at all in groups, but especially with them.
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Quote ( Leonardo Bittencourt @ March 22nd 2012,15:24:24 )
The whole 17 9th places in elite is sure a hell much harder than then 1 8th place, no matter how much people want to deny it...
Consistency is appropriately awarded already; in terms of points everyone knows the rules and the goals thus the scale of achievment is automatically defined against the incumbrent rules - someone genuinely finishing 9th 17 times is doing something wrong under the current points system; this was also covered 20 pages ago...and 30 pages ago...and in the other thread...
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ok im new here but i just want to say the points system is bad. the new f1 points system came around due to the increasing numbers of drivers and they needed it for the sport to become more competetive, and quite frankly theres alot of drivers in each group in gpro and it needs changing. it would make for a much more exciting championship.
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Quote ( John Lewis @ March 23rd 2012,16:49:31 )
it would make for a much more exciting championship.
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That's exactly what it would have very little bearing on, the reasons why are very thoroughly explained throughout this topic.
Welcome to the game though :)
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bump I just joined GPRO and i agree that the points system should change, as the amount of drivers in each group is increasing. With 20-30 drivers and only the top 8 gettin the points is unfair. I mean the reason F1 implented is because of the increase in teams, and that is why GPRO should implent it
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Oh my GOD, Sion will have a *poof*ing stroke over this! :D
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Quote ( Luigi Rossi @ June 17th 2012,14:14:18 ) bump I just joined GPRO and i agree that the points system should change, as the amount of drivers in each group is increasing. With 20-30 drivers and only the top 8 gettin the points is unfair. I mean the reason F1 implented is because of the increase in teams, and that is why GPRO should implent it
Big words for a newcomer:p, what about all the records established by the old point system lol. Also this game isnt F1
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Quote ( Adrian Summers @ June 17th 2012,14:15:51 ) a *poof*ing stroke
Don't say that, we're still cleaning up the mess from the last one.
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Quote ( Luigi Rossi @ June 17th 2012,14:14:18 ) bump I just joined GPRO and i agree that the points system should change, as the amount of drivers in each group is increasing. With 20-30 drivers and only the top 8 gettin the points is unfair. I mean the reason F1 implented is because of the increase in teams, and that is why GPRO should implent it
Previosu calculations has shown that increasing the amount of players geting points will have a small impact on the game, ofc more people get points but you'll also need more poitns to promote or stay in the group. The standing after the season will remain more or less the same as it was before. Giving more points to "everyone" won't change it.
The debate has been more of the kind about what is best, finishing third in one race and the rest finish last, or constantly finishing 9th to 20th.
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Quote ( Luigi Rossi @ June 17th 2012,14:14:18 ) as the amount of drivers in each group is increasing
Only in Rookie
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Quote ( Eric Bolder @ June 17th 2012,14:16:53 ) Also this game isnt F1
Not this one again. What a load of BS. Of course it's F1, all the pictures are F1, the points system is (older) F1. It IS F1. Saying it isn't won't change it. Tbh, the game needs a complete overhaul with the many cheaters (i.e. people with more than one account) removed and the setup system redesigned to make it more of a level playing field again.
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Quote ( Mark Killingback @ June 17th 2012,14:42:08 ) all the pictures are F1, the points system is (older) F1.
true
Quote ( Mark Killingback @ June 17th 2012,14:42:08 ) It IS F1.
bs. Game is F1 (or racing) themed but it doesnt mimic F1 because it's firstly a game not F1.
Quote ( Mark Killingback @ June 17th 2012,14:42:08 ) with the many cheaters (i.e. people with more than one account) removed
give shadow a suggestion on your way to stop cheating and he will be grateful for sure
Quote ( Mark Killingback @ June 17th 2012,14:42:08 ) the setup system redesigned
lol wut
setup system would be my final worry when thinking about gamebalance - meant point system perhaps? =|
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Quote ( Adrian Summers @ June 17th 2012,14:15:51 ) Oh my GOD, Sion will have a *poof*ing stroke over this! :D
:-)
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ June 17th 2012,15:03:58 ) :-)
Barely concealed apoplexia.
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If this was my game, I would have a linear "Footie manger" group system with up to date point system and 2 managers going up, while 4 go down. Obviously with far more different divisions to reach. Perhaps 2 parallel running world championships to not make it impossible to reach 1. division without spending 2 lifetimes on it and the possibility to add a 3rd and 4th once the user nrs rise.
But that will never happen and is just my dream concept.
I like intimate close combat and 40 people per group makes me not care about any of my groupmates. Perhaps that changes as you reach higher divisions, but it's the way it is for me now.
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Quote ( Mark Killingback @ June 17th 2012,14:42:08 ) Not this one again. What a load of BS. Of course it's F1, all the pictures are F1, the points system is (older) F1. It IS F1. Saying it isn't won't change it. Tbh, the game needs a complete overhaul with the many cheaters (i.e. people with more than one account) removed and the setup system redesigned to make it more of a level playing field again. Oh, no! What about the poor old players whose data will become useless? Just imagine the amount of whine the admins will have to bear. Have you no pity? Once people have gained an edge they'll stop at no end to keep things that way forever. Just be silent, ok?
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The "best" would never get the chance to properly test themselves then though.
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Well....Most likely I will have first eve season without points....so I am for inceasing number of positions scoring :D :D :D And NOW if possible! :D Thanks on advance! :D
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Quote ( Georg Petrov @ June 17th 2012,15:09:14 ) If this was my game, I would have a linear "Footie manger" group system with up to date point system and 2 managers going up, while 4 go down. Obviously with far more different divisions to reach. Perhaps 2 parallel running world championships to not make it impossible to reach 1. division without spending 2 lifetimes on it and the possibility to add a 3rd and 4th once the user nrs rise.
But that will never happen and is just my dream concept.
I like intimate close combat and 40 people per group makes me not care about any of my groupmates. Perhaps that changes as you reach higher divisions, but it's the way it is for me now.
Lol parallel championships? All the honour will go away if you are win one, cause yea there are many and you just happen to be in the easy one.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ June 17th 2012,15:12:43 ) The "best" would never get the chance to properly test themselves then though.
true, although there are workarounds for this too.
OBR, for example, without putting too much thought in it.
I could live with being one of the 2-4 best if it makes the overall game more balanced (which it definetely would, as you would have many more divisions to race through) and enjoyable.
But as I said, this would mean a whole new concept to everything, including driver OA management, money management, point statistics and so on.
So it would never even be considered. Just a different concept I expected when first joining the game and would have liked.
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If you think this through, if this manager happened to have 100.000 users, instead of 10.000, the current system would collapse. It feels as it wasn't designed to cope with more than the exact number of managers we have now.
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