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Teema: Current situation and GPRO's future |
1935 vastust
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At the moment Rookie and Ama are an absolute joke.....200 groups in Rookie,and no more than 15 starts the season and no more than 10 finishes it.
Not only that,but apart of the podium,the rest 3,4 laps behind if not more in every race.In my opinion,that demotivates anyone and its boring.
I know there are already penaltys for finishing in negative,but this should be steeper.Like starting next season lets say with 10 mill,and losing your driver,even if he is ok with the Oa but you finish in negative.If someone wants to train a driver there,make him sweat and work for it and dont let him win every race and just the last one go in negative and thats it.
Ama is even worse.No more than 32,33 start the season and usually less than 30 finishes it,no relegation and you dont even have to go in negative to mantain,allowing you to build fortunes without a sweat.
I think that both groups should be drastically reduced,you can always increase them if the numbers go up sometime.
And in Ama also go back to 15 relegating spots.That way itwould be more difficult to do whatever you want and not going down.....
At the moment Rookie almost doesnt exist,and Ama is like Rookie was before only that it doesnt reset and you keep your money and other things.Almost the only diference is that you can say im an Ama or a Rookie...
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Are you saying make another level of the game between amateur and rookie? Or between Pro and amateur?
Cos, just adding 10 more relegations PER GROUP to each amateur group, requires more of something coming out of the level below (simple math shows it to be over 1,000 managers!). So, if you want more competitive amateur groups, without losing or upsetting many players in those levels, the only thing to assist that would be another level of the game. However, we strolled down this avenue before I believe and it ended up meaning the higher levels of the game were severely interfered with - something I agreed with others shouldn't happen. Any issues with rookie and amateur should be fixed BELOW Pro level. And your suggestion Martin of more amateur relegations is only fixed really with another level of the game. I think it would cause too much pain on the game to change OA ranges etc though? That would be the biggest thing for me...would it cause to much of a hinderance seeing as we have long term driver projects that would additionally be interfered with - even in amateur level where we might think its fine to fix things from!
Its not an easy thing to solve in my view. We spent a lot of time coming up with ideas, but probably none that were agreeable on all fronts.
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I agree that in Rookie racing is too scattered. Getting Rookie numbers closer to 25 could help a bit (though it's also due to drivers being so different in Rookie and newbies not having a clue what and how to sign).
I wouldn't touch the upper pyramid. I think it's good to have more people experiencing the "full" game with td's and tyre suppliers. But maybe as a temporary solution, the bottom could be shrunk a bit. Maybe reduce the Amas to 75 (5 goes up, 13 goes down) and Rookies to 195 (5 goes up) or something like that.
Anyway, it would be nice if something could be done to racing being so scattered. It's demoralising to finish 5 laps down regardless of whether there are 15 or 25 managers in front of you. If the paces were closer, there would be more battles and sometimes with good strategy or luck you could climb higher instead of cruising alone at the back all the time. It would be nice to get Rookie drivers closer to each other, but that would mean touching the game basics.
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Nope,nothing of that sort stuart....what i think is in reducing Ama and Rookie groups....The down fall of that that probably some Ama would go down to Rookie,but if i was one of them i wouldnt mind as i would take it as to improve the game....Less groups,more managers running in them,and much more competitive....I agree 100% with that Jukka.From Pro upwards it still is ok and works fine,problem is in Ama and Rookie....
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Wouldn't it be an option to poll the freshmen in rookie to figure out if there actually is a perceived problem among those chiefly concerned before discussing how to change things on their behalf?
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Sven, the problem being discussed is the weakness in the amateur level, causing managers to retain their place so easily due to few relegations. Which obviously has a knock on effect then into rookie if those relegations are increased/changed.
I think 5 out of a rookie group is too many though Jukka. Perhaps if it was something like 90 amateur groups (4 promoting?) with 15 relegations from each of those, and then 3 guaranteed promotions out of rookie and all others promoted via the "additional" promotion list. That might be better, cos 5 guaranteed promotions out of rookie seems high to me.
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Think thatis very easily seen sven.....if no more than 15 racing in each group and less than 10 finishes the season,it breaks the eye that theres a problem.Even if some Rookie likes it cause it is easier to promote,its not good for the game in my opinion....
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2017,16:34:19 )
I think 5 out of a rookie group is too many though Jukka. Perhaps if it was something like 90 amateur groups (4 promoting?) with 15 relegations from each of those, and then 3 guaranteed promotions out of rookie and all others promoted via the "additional" promotion list. That might be better, cos 5 guaranteed promotions out of rookie seems high to me.
Maybe. But the more there are Ama groups, the more there are promotions from Rookie. So you would need to go to 62 Amas with 6 going up. Then you could have 13 to go down and 4 go up from 201 Rookies, or 10 to go down and 3 go up from 206 Rookies.
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Quote ( Martin Irla @ September 1st 2017,16:36:09 ) it breaks the eye that theres a problem
That's ironic given the structure of your posts :D
Quote ( Martin Irla @ September 1st 2017,16:36:09 ) its not good for the game in my opinion....
That's your opinion. My point is, your opinion is irrelevant since you (and most others who have voiced their concerns) are in Pro or above.
So far since Marcel made his suggestion there have been 43 posts. 5 of them by people in rookie groups, none of which declared they had a problem with "super" rookies or experienced managers being placed among new players in rookie groups.
Hence why I think it might be an idea to find out whether or not there really is a problem here to begin with, before detailing how to disrupt the game yet again.
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ September 1st 2017,16:34:19 ) Sven, the problem being discussed is the weakness in the amateur level
The discussion originated from Marcel's suggestion which was based on his notion that it was a problem that experienced players who relegate to Rookie were placed in the same groups as "true" rookies. Thus, weakness at Amateur is not the core issue being discussed.
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Quote ( Robin Goodey @ September 1st 2017,14:53:16 ) Don't take things so personally Rastislav - the posts aren't attacking you - after all, to be considered a super rookie, you have to have the ability to score points at higher levels ;)
Robin, thanks. I was almost sure that if there will be any intelligent reaction, it will be from you.
I was ready for any kind of the reaction before posting my one.
Especially from the people without face (photo) not able to achieve good results without mentor, team and tools made by someone else.
When I have entered a game I was also facing the super rookies for seasons but I wasn't crying, I have started to watch them, later systematically spying them and learning from all that grabbed data. I don't understand all these "mum feed me with a spoon" who need to have an extra straight lane to the success.
To the point:
I have no problem to adapt. I have already tried out how VERY VERY easy is to score points in Ama (without much effort).
Currently I just prefer to have fun in Rookie with the friends and grab some achievements before coming to Ama and sitting there with the new aims.
After (potential) elimination of super rookies I can simply become a "super amateur" - expecting the hatred against the "super amas" .
The worser thing than attacking the super rookies is that some people systematically (or more probably non-systematically) suggest things which are killing the Rookie level. I believe their intensions are really good - but the real impact is the opposite.
And, of course, after they make some harm, they blame the super rookies who are (in many cases) standing in their (wanna be) simple way to success.
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How about reducing Rookie group from 200 to let's say 125 or 150?
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Of course its only my opinion sven,and of course im not the owner of the truth and very well could be wrong....but it is what i think and obviously i state it as anyone,think that its for what the forums are.Usually nobody pays me any attention anyway,jaja....
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I don't think a rookie group needs 25+ racers to make it entertaining (maybe finishing lower than 15th every race would get a bit demoralising...) but it's a bit poor when there is a group of over 30 and yet less than half of them bother to qualify.
Perhaps there should be some sort of pre-rookie group that you are relegated to if you complete less than five (for example) races in the season. Doesn't matter if people miss a few races here and there but would at least ensure that more often than not you had a fairly full grid. 15 - 20 drivers is good enough, but my group currently has a starting grid of 12. Makes it easier for me, but not really the point!
I realise that last paragraph has very little to do with the 'super rookie' problem...
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Quote ( Trae Fisher @ September 1st 2017,15:51:14 ) Look at the guy who won the R93 title, guy has a history of being in rookie and amateur only, and does really well on rookie. A super rookie is a guy who is only good at the rookie level and purposefully stays on the level just to win and actually contend.
Ah ok, I thought a 'super rookie' was someone who would normally be on master/elite dropping down into rookie. In which I can see the problem with it, I didn't think people would deliberately get relegated just so they can experience winning, shows what I know!
I mean, I get the idea of wanting to stick around in rookie because it's more fun and you have more of a chance, rather than finishing 27th every race, but a bit weird to deliberately drop so you can tonk everyone else.
Maybe I just don't understand what a tough place to make a living 'Amateur' level is :-)
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Regarding phone applications, It would be cool to start simple. e. The first versions of the app would just show you the season information (Money and car levels, manager's staff, manager's result, etc). then the next versions would slowly introduce notifications, ingame mailbox, chat, and race components one by one.
Too many people have abandoned pcs and laptops for phones and all sorts of tablets. A full featured GPRO application on phones and tablets would probably increase the active members count by triple at launch.
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An app has been discussed many times before.
I dont think vlad has the time or capabilities to design such an app. I agree that this game is crying out for a decent app tbf. It would take some getting used to as we'd need many more screens than we have now.
It has potential however to generate loads of participants and cash.
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As i have stated before: no need for a dedicated iphone/android app even, just a mobile screen friendly version of the site would do fine.
Currently, i don't dare to change race settings on mobile, for instance, out of fear my greasy fingers mess things up.
Do realise that this will take one hell of an effort, which may not currently fit GPROs priorities.
Aren't there any managers here that are studying web development of some kind, and can turn this daunting task into an internship for college credit rather than cash? :D
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Yeah I'd agree with that statement Miel.
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You're right about that, But consider these:
-still 50% of the internet do not know how to use a search engine (to find out about gpro)
-mobile browsers usually suck
-appstore entries get user reviews, editor reviews, awards, voting system.
-appstore platforms suggest GPRO to f1 enthusiasts depending on their search history or on the "featured"
-It's easier to buy supporter credits with the payment system setup by Apple and Google. much much more easier.
-You get notification support. This is a big deal now that smart watches and all that stuff are a thing.
and I do understand that this is too much effort and requires investment. Hoping that a good app developer join the team.
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Quote ( Mick Ridley @ September 1st 2017,14:50:19 ) As Ama is now so easy to retain, why not make "Reset to Rookie" impossible, but change to "Reset to Ama"? Surely a better and easier option?
That would certainly solve most of the super rookie 'problem' and I've often wondered why it wasn't introduced when the numbers staying really started to drop. The one thing that makes people drop down the pyramid is fear of losing the untrainables and that would be solved by Mick's suggestion.
As for the we need more demoters/promoters do you honestly think someone who's finishing 25th in Rookie instead of 8th is going to be more motivated? Personally I think not!
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I don't see a problem with the current set up. In fact leaving Rookie not to have to look back (unless choosing it) but able to stay in Amateur with ease is something I think is good.
Rookies teaches the game, once out of it it's like you should be out of a "tutorial", no need to go back really.
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rookie reset needs to be revisited. Your unable to tie down sponsors long term which is one thing which should change. If you dont promote, keep the negotiations progress.
My current situation has made me decide to quit when my credits run out. Feels like im not able to progress at all, so why play something that seems pointless at times.
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Quote ( Neil Mulvey @ September 1st 2017,21:56:16 ) rookie reset needs to be revisited. Your unable to tie down sponsors long term which is one thing which should change. If you dont promote, keep the negotiations progress.
My current situation has made me decide to quit when my credits run out. Feels like im not able to progress at all, so why play something that seems pointless at times.
I agree with this!! And I think sponsors could offer high values than actual!! A little bit!
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--whopse -- wrong section
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Yes, as newbie just had my first race and only one other racer was a newbie most of the others been going for at least a season some for several season but had been demoted it seems main for negative fund,
So first experience not good.
will give it one or two more goes but think the the game does not welcome newbies!!!!
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Bear in mind Jane that managers with one or two seasons experience aren't that much better off than yourself. The game is generally quite generous to newbies, as they are all given the chance to get a mentor, race with other newbies and join helpful teams, while resetting finances and other important aspects each season so that if you make any mistakes this season you may try again next season.
Simply reading the wiki, being taught by a mentor for 3 races and keeping a record of your data easily puts you at an advantage to 2+ seasons old managers who have done none of this stuff. So treat your first few races/first season as lessons and learn from your rivals so you can replicate their success next season. :)
E: looking at your last race, I suppose you first lesson has been to analyse your fuel loads. 6 stops on any track is less than ideal, so something as simple as getting a rough idea of fuel consumption and maybe swapping that default driver for a better one will make you much more competitive. Good luck for next time :)
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For my 50c heres what i think:
Any Rookie reset from upper levels drops to AMA with L3 parts and $15M AND drops all staff and facility levels to lowest AMA level. New random driver issued at $1.2M salary.
Rookie reset from AMA drops to Rookie with full reset and only $25M.
What you think of them banana's???
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Quote ( Gavin Adam @ September 27th 2017,05:58:57 ) Any Rookie reset from upper levels drops to AMA with L3 parts and $15M AND drops all staff and facility levels to lowest AMA level.
So you're worse off than if you promoted from rookie with the slightest clue about the game? You can easily promote with an L4 car, $50m and a decent (and cheap) driver.
It would just lead to people going negative to drop to rookie at the end of the season and then start promotion with the driver they trained during their forced ama season. That doesn't solve anything in my eyes.
Quote ( Gavin Adam @ September 27th 2017,05:58:57 )
Rookie reset from AMA drops to Rookie with full reset and only $25M.
For what reason? Either you'll do a prep season and go negative anyway, then it doesn't matter if you have 5-10m more or less, or you're going straight for promo, then it's only punishing the player when he arrives in ama and has no effect at all on your Rookie performance.
In the worst case, it makes resetting players stay in Rookie for another season.
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Quote ( Jens Jäschke @ September 27th 2017,06:50:28 ) So you're worse off
Yep, thats the point.
That could level the competition a bit, an experienced manager with lesser equipment vs a newbie with less data / knowledge. Should be an interesting challenge.
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Quote ( Gavin Adam @ September 27th 2017,08:19:50 ) That could level the competition a bit, an experienced manager with lesser equipment vs a newbie with less data / knowledge. Should be an interesting challenge.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but any decent manager still wouldn't find having 15M, level 3 parts and no S&F in amateur a challenge at all. Hell, I survived pretty well with almost exactly that (in fact it was 13M), and that was in my first amateur season since I returned, and I was far from a decent manager back then. Now I'd do much better than I did then under those conditions.
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