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Teema: Driver Energy |
2267 vastust
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I have no experience nor have I talked about this on higher groups, but I remain positive about this change. This is a manager game, not a "race-do-or-die-game" and driver energy gives this game a new dimension. Personally I would love more, similar additions.
If you depend on 100CT in Ama, then you havvent trained your driver properly. Also I find this thing to be very much the same for everybody; you cant run 100CT in Ama no longer. That makes it more of a level playing field. Also I admit my team's research isnt fully clear about this thing, but I do know some more things now as I have changed my driver.
I think its much easier to succeed now. But I admit the ideal driver distribution has changed. But I love a real good challenge :)
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Okay so I need to ask this...what is Spa training???
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 1st 2016,01:25:27 ) Spa spam My question is where can I get this, and is it available with bacon?
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I am new to Pro and its a bit of an eye opener if im honest. Even if i wasnt i am sure i couldnt pull the wool over it,its more the same of amateur but with smaller margins and some things thrown in,wich are simple enoug,i guess these margins get smaller in higher tiers. (shudder) My maths knowledge are becoming smaller too the more i think about it...its a maths game and if youre not good at maths youre not good at this,unless you have help.
So,back to the subject. Energy.
It is without doubt a "dumber" for CT risk. All it is and all it will do is demax the ct you can use in a race. Granted you cant use 100 ct in races any more and get close to it and hope you make it to the end if you max its potential or get so far in front if anything happens untowards it wont matter but isnt all its doing is making that margin smaller or the limit?? There is no way anyone can run 100ct in any race and have sufficiant to make it possible anyways. Eventually it will become the norm and succeed only in managers trying to work out when they can push its max, wich is what happened without it. The fact that true "randoms" have become increased only makes me believe that in the code the programmers have increased them to try to balance it out in some way??
The idea is great to a degree but im thinking the game will turn more away than welcome then welcome them as all its done is hamper theyre enjoyment.
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Quote ( Mikie Shaw @ October 2nd 2016,06:12:32 ) The fact that true "randoms" have become increased only makes me believe that in the code the programmers have increased them to try to balance it out in some way?? Not sure how this opinion has been formed? maybe some bad luck for a vocal team mate, friend or yourself? anyway unless I have missed something this has not happened, unlucky.
Quote ( Mikie Shaw @ October 2nd 2016,06:12:32 ) The idea is great to a degree but im thinking the game will turn more away than welcome then welcome them as all its done is hamper theyre enjoyment. It's already been proven that more managers like the change... So logic would say it will increase new player retention =)
I think the trouble is: you have 10 players, 3 players dislike the change 2 of which voice that opinion. out of the 7 that like it only 1 voices that opinion.
Brilliant change =)
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Quote ( Christoph Seifriedsberger @ September 30th 2016,23:09:25 )
I don't take most of the whiners serious anymore (unless they actually come up with some valid reason why something should may be tweaked a bit), because most of them are just poorly managing their account which has nothing to do with energy at all, but they now have something to blame for their own faults.
I am for this:
Quote ( Ľubomír Štec @ September 30th 2016,22:26:34 ) why does driver run out of energy when the car is smoking almost 2/3 of the race ? that´s just bed stuff to play with energy :/ why should he use the energy when he is not even trying to do something with broken car...another thing is that such a car should be retired for the entire race to save car parts and driver´s energy...that´s no point in finishing race in these conditions just because getting money for 90% of the race length :/ all these things are more disadvantegous against finnishing race and getting more money :(
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Put the smoking risks to 0 and he probably won't run out of energy.
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yes that´s right I agree but still it could be not so much drop of energy with low malfunction risk.
On the other side there could be done something in that way when you get random in early stage of race that you retire from race rather then try to finish and spend car parts and energy :/
It is ok you run some malfunction risk to prevent lose in the end of race in a few laps but when you smoke almost the whole race then it is all disadvantage :(
till now I am happy about energy it is good game change but it could be more balanced because you have to be well prepared for promotion because you cannot train your driver if you want good results...the only way to do is just train spa to keep driver in the best condition for the race :/
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Quote ( Ľubomír Štec @ October 2nd 2016,13:51:14 ) because you have to be well prepared for promotion because you cannot train your driver if you want good results...the only way to do is just train spa to keep driver in the best condition for the race :/
You're in amateur - if, to promote to pro, you need to run risks that are so high that you have to use spa to regenerate enough energy each race - then quite frankly, you are NOT ready to promote.
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thanks for saying me if I am ready or not I dont think you know me better then myself but ok...I am not argue with you :/
really I refuse to drive 10CT every race just to finish points and make promotion that´s not my goal even still it is possible for me easily :/
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Quote ( Ľubomír Štec @ October 2nd 2016,13:51:14 ) ...the only way to do is just train spa to keep driver in the best condition for the race :/ I've checked the rules and it doesn't say that, so not the only way thankfully:) I really should let you guys keep preaching this dung, but I like good honest competition:)
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Get to a competitive level in Pro or above and you might actually understand James... no offence.
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Well thankfully I already understand ( as much as you can after 5 races ) and I am perfectly happy for anyone to utilise that kind of strategy, Good luck to em. lol
Quote ( Josh Clark @ October 2nd 2016,15:18:52 ) no offence I hold nothing against you Josh despite your history, if you don't want to offend, don't.. Read / Think / Respond. I think you missed the important part.
Interesting to know how you understand better given we are both currently at the same lvl. well with that account anyway:)
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To be honest it isn't massively different. Some people have the general strategy of swapping drivers each season anyway, rather than bore themselves training one up. Buying a slightly more expensive, high performing driver that gets consistent results and paying for it with the sponsor income is a viable strategy. Spa training just makes it easier, and ultimately more successful.
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ October 2nd 2016,15:42:46 ) Buying a slightly more expensive, high performing driver that gets consistent results and paying for it with the sponsor income is a viable strategy. Spa training just makes it easier, and ultimately more successful. yes maybe it helps this kind of strategy slightly. but this strategy has had the 100CT donk option removed so it is still not a guaranteed winning strategy. The game is a long term financial management game anyone planning correctly a long term strategy is always going to have an advantage over your quick fix "Mcdonalds" strategy IMO :)
Anyway I'm goin fishing, have a good day:)
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In Pro and above anything else than 100CT, when you wanted results, has been in most cases useless. So if before driver trainers and driver buyers both ran 100CT, now driver buyers who can train more spa, because they are planning to ditch their driver, have an advantage in CT they can use.
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ October 2nd 2016,16:48:49 ) have an advantage in CT they can use
yes but a driver trainer, starting a promotion season "should" already have a significant driver advantage and that advantage should increase throughout the season. add to this the other advantages you should have from not throwing money at a throw away driver and well... I'm going fishing
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The higher you go the smaller the advantage you get from training gets.
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Quote ( James Berriman @ October 2nd 2016,17:04:21 ) Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ October 2nd 2016,16:48:49 )
have an advantage in CT they can use
yes but a driver trainer, starting a promotion season "should" already have a significant driver advantage and that advantage should increase throughout the season. add to this the other advantages you should have from not throwing money at a throw away driver and well... I'm going fishing
Fishing trip cancelled ???
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Quote ( Robert Kearney @ October 2nd 2016,18:34:28 ) Fishing trip cancelled ??? Fishing never gets cancelled, if there is a real emergency it may get postponed but never cancelled=)
Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ October 2nd 2016,17:44:11 ) The higher you go the smaller the advantage you get from training gets. The foundations are not built after you put the roof on:)
Yes this is a significant change, I understand, but I do not believe the spa training is such a positive for the quick fix manager long term. We will see, Only 5 races in and the "it's broken, fix it brigade" are bubbling over!!! My children have more patience than some of these whingers. The point being: it's still far too early to make all these silly statements.
Shame that you have taken the higher lvl angle as well Jukka:/ There you go spa training is officially the best strategy:P So we can add rookie and Am managers to the retired managers that are no longer entitled to an opinion?? :D
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Quote ( James Berriman @ October 3rd 2016,00:59:29 ) Shame that you have taken the higher lvl angle as well Jukka:/ There you go spa training is officially the best strategy:P So we can add rookie and Am managers to the retired managers that are no longer entitled to an opinion?? :D
I don't think that was Jukka's intention. If anything, his approach to the community is always positive. His point is, training doesn't produce a linear effect. The more trained a driver is, the lower the return (plus stuff such as stamina increases at a lower rate with testing depending on the current stamina value). Instead, CT risks produce a pretty much linear gain, so energy is more useful in the higher leagues. Also, high level drivers use less energy % per lap for the same CT compared with a low level driver, so the effect of Spa is even better for a high level driver.
Some of this stuff isn't necessarily well known by a manager in rookie or amateur, so Jukka's statement wasn't dismissive but simply a fact. This doesn't mean rookies or amateurs aren't entitled to an opinion, but there are experienced managers whose opinion has more weight. As happens in everything, truly; you usually give more validity to somebody with higher degree of expertise in a subject.
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We are all rookies when it comes to energy though :)
Edit: Except Kevin and Winkley
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Quote ( Krasimir Ivanov @ October 1st 2016,21:48:17 ) I agree with the people from Master 1 that Spa training is ruining drivers long term.
Well that's an odd view, considering that you say as follows:
Quote ( Krasimir Ivanov @ October 1st 2016,21:48:17 ) No matter how good your "package" is, if there are 3-4 people constantly using Spa you will not promote. Thus the best current strategy is to only use Spa in your promo season and abandon your driver when you promote.
If you say that there are 3-4 people constantly using the spa, you can hardly blame the spa for ruining the progress of all drivers
The spa might become an issue the drivers and future markets only if the natural recovery rate is too low, which is actually the potential danger.
couple examples:
If the driver does not recover naturally from 50% energy to the race, spa will be used always
If the driver does not recover naturally from 30% energy to the race, spa will be used consistently
If the driver does not recover naturally from 20% energy to the race, spa might get used sometimes
I mean, what's this "you have to manage your drivers energy" if the natural recovery rate is 50%, then it means that you have to use the spa every time you race. There's not much management involved in that
To conclude: Balancing the natural recovery rate is the key in making this feature work properly. That is the element which can make or break it
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Totally agree with Mikko.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ October 3rd 2016,02:25:57 ) truly; you usually give more validity to somebody with higher degree of expertise in a subject.
Quote ( Roland Postle @ October 3rd 2016,02:37:22 ) We are all rookies when it comes to energy though :)
I know Jukka is a helpful operator and this was his intention, but however relevant the content of his point, the lower return is not a change! OBP strats and Mcdonalds strats have had a negative impact and a positive impact ( across all levels ) this is the driver energy thread and I am simply counter arguing that spa training is now clearly the best strategy after 5 races. It may well be... but anyone who already "thinks" it clearly is, cool. It's a game where reliable knowledge can be a reliable resource, yes. let's increase the population a little more, before we start the maths:)
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ October 3rd 2016,02:49:46 ) I mean, what's this "you have to manage your drivers energy" if the natural recovery rate is 50%, then it means that you have to use the spa every time you race. There's not much management involved in that
To conclude: Balancing the natural recovery rate is the key in making this feature work properly. That is the element which can make or break it
yes. I'm not in the team but I talked to several guys. And their the most problem is that some managers can do all the race using CT-100, some of them can't go up CT-70 (I talked about Masters). So if you trained your driver, it is possible he is unuseful now. But without energy system they should be very fast.
I don't know, I don't care now, there are nothing changed for me in amateurs. But I see at Masters and Elite, guys use high risks. Who don't do that, lose the race. So they must use CT-100, it means they must use the spa, it means they can't upgrade their drivers.
So, for example, if I need to be at the top, I can't train my driver and I will lose agressiveness every race, plus offseason. RIP good drivers.
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it's time to make this topic for everyone to vote...
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The thing is - you either go medium CT so your driver recovers 100%, you go bursts (Drivers max ct, low ct, max ct etc.), or use spa. It's all up to you and there are usually only a few managers going for promotion/trophy in any level so the last option is only for a very small group of managers. The rest can develop thire drivers just as they want so I see no problem here. Sure, the promoters will not be as strong but they will still benefit from top notch MOT etc.
I have a very slow group in this season as only one manager was gearing towards promotionso I actually have a problem in driving slowly. 0 ct would still produce points and as I wanted to find my drivers CT vs. Energy cap and used various levels of risk I am sitting on a solid 2nd whereas I would be dead last in any PRO group if I promoted as my driver is 1 season away from that kind of form.
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ October 3rd 2016,12:21:00 ) The thing is - you either go medium CT so your driver recovers 100%, you go bursts (Drivers max ct, low ct, max ct etc.), or use spa. It's all up to you and there are usually only a few managers going for promotion/trophy in any level so the last option is only for a very small group of managers. The rest can develop thire drivers just as they want so I see no problem here. Sure, the promoters will not be as strong but they will still benefit from top notch MOT etc.
there is no problem in amateurs. I mean Masters for example. Some promo managers can take experienced driver, good package and do all races using CT close to 100. After that they hire another driver in Elite.
If you want to be promoted, you should set the same risks too, so you have no chance to upgrade your driver, even if you got him in Amateurs and you had great development plan before the energy system. I think that driver development became the biggest gpro problem. Plus several small problems which has been discussed there already.
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I look at all this mess that is happening because of this new feature, called "Energy".
And I understand that the idea is good, but the implementation of any kind!
As we say: "wanted as better, and it turned out as always!"
It's not right when one can go all the races ст100!
Others can at best allow ст60!
You say that ст60 better, but it is not, in a particular race ст100 I need to get into glasses, and then better use st0.
But now this strategy does not work a priori.
Yes, this feature works fine in Am, but there and so all was well. The Masters and the Elite it does not work correctly.
In the situation naprashivaetsa disastrous conclusion. They changed the game too much, it was different.
And now it's time to leave if nothing is going to change the admins.
Prichem it's not just my opinion, but the opinion of many managers with whom I communicate at the level of Masters and Elite.
Sorry for my English...
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