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Teema: Making fun of elite |
83 vastust
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Ho ho, trying to win best forum topic, are we? This won't do!
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Quote ( Branislav Mihic @ September 25th 2020,17:53:45 ) One could limit promo sponsors to the tier in which they were earned. So an Elite promo sponsor could only be used while in Elite. If you relegate to Master, then it becomes inactive until you are back in Elite. As long as it's not on the car of course. No. The issue we are discussing here is jumping between Elite and Master, collecting Elite promo sponsors, to eventually run at full steam in Elite push. Ability to use them in Elite only changes nothing in this approach.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 25th 2020,18:52:39 ) that awful S76 I'd have done way better by picking Pipis and hiring a driver with great potential for Master instead of giving Elite a try.
I cannot imagine spending 20 seasons in Master to then not score in Elite. Why ARE you still playing Edwin? lol. If it makes you feel any better i relegated on 6 points (scoring twice inc a fastest lap), thats the way she goes.
If pips were not available in Elite i wonder if better Master managers would then promote? Do ppl spend everything just to make Elite?
Do ppl really play like that Ania? if so smfh i want to make fun of these 'managers' :D
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Quote ( Sam Norris @ September 25th 2020,19:35:00 ) Why ARE you still playing Edwin? You must be aware the answer to your question will take at least 9 paragraphs of about 10 lines each. That's 90 lines of text, but! You've actually asked three questions which are addressed to Edwin, so that's 270 lines. Given one line is about 120 characters long the total reply to your post will involve 32400 characters without spaces. A small book really
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Quote ( Sam Norris @ September 25th 2020,19:35:00 ) I cannot imagine spending 20 seasons in Master to then not score in Elite.
That part doesn't bug me at all. I didn't spend that many seasons in Master preparing for Elite. That would be stupid. Had that been my target, I'd have done it the right way: going down to Amateur and building a quite more powerful package in a fraction of the time. Elite arrived just due to very exceptional circumstances regarding sponsorship availability in M-3, which was the worst in Master for several years (not seasons, but years) in a row, so at S72 I hired a very unprepared driver that would be a hail Mary: either immediate demotion when he was on his own at S73, which almost happened, or leaving the group on the promotion side instead.
What bugs me instead is the proper decision in Elite would have been Pipis with a Master driver, That would have handsomely rewarded me, whereas giving it a try was a very bad decision instead. A game in which one can be more rewarded by such kind of moves (or heavily penalized otherwise) makes me question the whole point of the game.
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Quote ( Sam Norris @ September 25th 2020,19:35:00 ) If it makes you feel any better i relegated on 6 points (scoring twice inc a fastest lap)
No! Six points and a fastest lap? You're truly a god amongst men =]
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Never want to promote to Elite, I cant beat this score. geez, 6 points
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Quote ( Guilherme Franco @ September 25th 2020,22:55:05 ) Never want to promote to Elite, I cant beat this score. geez, 6 points
Just aim to beat the 1 point Max got in his first elite season ;)
Im still fairly sure 6 is enough to retain in the vast majority of seasons. I did score 1 more than the 7 time champ what more can i do?
Thread title needs fixing to "Making fun of former elite" :D
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Quote ( Sam Norris @ September 25th 2020,19:35:00 ) I cannot imagine spending 20 seasons in Master to then not score in Elite. Why ARE you still playing Edwin? lol. If it makes you feel any better i relegated on 6 points (scoring twice inc a fastest lap), thats the way she goes.
If pips were not available in Elite i wonder if better Master managers would then promote? Do ppl spend everything just to make Elite?
Do ppl really play like that Ania? if so smfh i want to make fun of these 'managers' :D
I guess someone with 7 Elite points could talk down to you like this, and so on. lol get a grip on yourself brother, it's a game and it's fun for different people at different levels.
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Now why we would make fun of... anyone?
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 25th 2020,20:03:53 ) What bugs me instead is the proper decision in Elite would have been Pipis with a Master driver, That would have handsomely rewarded me, whereas giving it a try was a very bad decision instead. A game in which one can be more rewarded by such kind of moves (or heavily penalized otherwise) makes me question the whole point of the game.
I'm going to be blunt here.
You promoted to Elite with enough money and an extremely developed driver (highest OA ever seen in Master?). Seen from the outside (i.e. without knowledge of sponsors situation), you arrived in great shape. Others in recent times have arrived with similar drivers and did decent jobs in Elite for several seasons. Why did you fail where others succeeded? Surely it was not the game's fault? You had very solid and consistent results all the way through the season but never peaked high enough to finish in the points.
The game didn't penalize you for not picking Pipis, it penalized you for not executing your season well. Your long-term approach could also have been "handsomely rewarded" with a beautiful Elite run, you just didn't take the opportunity.
I'm not saying this for the sake of roasting you, but when you suggest that your own Elite failure is an example of the game rewarding the wrong things, and that picking Pipis would have been a better decision in your situation, I strongly disagree. In the first few seasons after relegation, sure it would have been better to go down in a planned manner, but what about the next time you arrive in Elite? All the Pipi seasons in the world won't put a manager in a better position if they don't know how to lay the puzzle down correctly when they hold all the pieces.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ September 27th 2020,18:52:52 ) Why did you fail where others succeeded?
I'll write the response not to blame the game, neither to excuse myself, just to explain the facts.
I wasn't going to Elite just to get a star. I went to Elite to push hard. For that, I needed a very carefully crafted plan. From the very beginning things went awry in many aspects:
- As you must surely have noticed, that season had a very anomalous field of drivers in Elite. 4 drivers started the season at +230 OA, 12 at +220 OA, and in general the field was the best in my records that date several years, including the whole span since the energy feature. That couldn't be foreseen, and even if it could have, there is nothing I could have done when the promotion to Elite season cannot be delayed anyways. This roster of drivers in Elite made life harder than usual for a newcomer.
- I prepared a set of races to push. I didn't pick the hyper specialized tracks because usually there are a bunch of managers who fully prepare for those. Instead I went after less specialized tracks but with still enough specialization degree to give it a shot. Those were Ahvenisto, Monte Carlo, Poznan, Baku and Austin. It turned out the weather at those races weren't good. At Ahvenisto I was 6th before rain stopped almost as early as it could have (2 laps within the 2nd stint), so it wasn't enough to hold on. No biggie, still 4 shots left. It's unlikely temperature won't be low at any. Except it was 37°, 45°, 38°, 31° and a lost cause when there are 17 Contis + BRs out there, many of those handled by +230 OA drivers. Thus, I had to tweak my plans many times, waiting for a chance that never happened.
- Of course, besides the planned to push races, there could also happen some good races for BYs: cold-ish with wet weather. Except that didn't happen either. We had a grand total of 6 rainy laps <33°, and half of them were actually harmful for me because I picked the wrong lottery ticket.
- Finally, R17, when I should have scored and according to Ioannis (I didn't watch the race, so I can't attest for that) I'd have retained even with a regular pitstop random.
- A bonus track while we are at it. R2 also happened to be a decent race to score. From the managers in top 10 on the grid, 7 scored. Very nice tally with 8 potential scoring positions. Who didn't score? Roland, who had a start crash; a guy with Hancock, whose strategy was +1 stopper than average, and who else: me. From 4th on the grid, overtaken at the start by a guy who started 11 places behind, with a harder compound and +25 liters heavier car, and from then onward it was race over.
So, do the math: what were the odds of facing the most qualified driver roster in many years, so few rainy cold-ish laps, none of the planned pushing races being cold or wet and having a DNF random at a race when one should have scored?
Now, of course, if success was to be measured as retention, I could have retained by feeding cash to the problem. The issue is, as I repeat, I wasn't going to Elite just to retain. I didn't have the luxury of promo sponsors given my last promotion was +20 seasons ago, so I had to be very careful with finances, including walking a thin line in expenditures vs. income. Thus, I didn't put online sponsors that I could have, because I needed them to feed the actual pushing seasons. I have no regrets about that, because the whole thing was a mess since the very beginning, the season was very harsh and even with all those difficulties I almost made it happen. Of course, it sucks I failed and in that regards I stand by my point: at the end of the day, in hindsight, I'd have done better by giving up since the very beginning.
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Nothing succeeds like success, no one can tell better than those who never succeeded :(
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 27th 2020,19:57:55 ) I'd have done better by giving up since the very beginning.
No disrespect...
How does that make any sense? Spit happens. Yes, you got screwed but why are you moaning about it now? You did the best you were capable of... it just didn't work out to plan.
Saying you would have done differently... I have many seasons that I would have done differently, too. You generally have a more clear and logical approach, mate.
This whole thing about Pippi tires in Elite is a joke. What are the odds a Pippi manager will win the Elite title? People will play any way the game allows. You know that Edwin.
edit: currently 7 of the last 8 positions are on Pippi tires. Not much hope for them to retain. Personally, I'd be happy to spend one season in Elite but I would want to 'race' in the group. win or lose. Keep pushing to make a point and that would not include Pippi tires.
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Quote ( Roy Mitchell @ September 27th 2020,21:49:25 ) Yes, you got screwed but why are you moaning about it now?
Because Jasper asked why did I fail, although in fairness I don't even know why the question, since we shared a group and he was aware of most developments.
I'm not moaning. This is the first time I address the developments of S76 and I wouldn't have hadn't I been challenged by Jasper's question. I didn't say a word when those happened, not even after the awful R17 random that was the nail on the coffin.
Regardless, the main point is the same: objectively speaking, I'd have done better by going Pipis that season. Even of one wants to state I failed because my plan execution was bad, it doesn't matter, still the argument remains: I'd be better had I gone Pipis (or at least had I replaced my driver before R17 instead of trying to retain), which has been my whole point all along.
Quote ( Roy Mitchell @ September 27th 2020,21:49:25 ) . What are the odds a Pippi manager will win the Elite title? People will play any way the game allows. You know that Edwin.
You're stating the obvious, Roy, but you know that's not the subject. Pipis won't get a championship: Pipis allow for championship preparations. We have already seen 3 (or it was 4?) championships which included Pipis demotion preparation seasons, and as long as the gameplay rules remain the same, particularly regarding promo sponsors and resources scarcity in Elite, that will keep happening. It's a very powerful strategy.
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Quote ( Roy Mitchell @ September 27th 2020,21:49:25 ) This whole thing about Pippi tires in Elite is a joke. What are the odds a Pippi manager will win the Elite title?
What are the chances anyone who doesn't pick Bridgerock or Michi wins a title? Almost none.
Or if you mean building a package in Elite rather than immediate success, I can tell you there is zero chance of me fighting for a title before I relegate again even on BY (or any tyre I choose). I think people should be able to play the way they wish.
If my sole aim in GPRO was to challenge for an Elite title as soon as possible I would have chosen pipi last season (or better yet, never promoted to Elite while underprepared). However, like you said you would do, I want score as many points as possible, attempt to win a race and finish as high as I can in the final standings until my money runs out.
However, if I relegate and come back to Elite in 5 seasons time, unprepared in the same way, I may choose to relegate on pipi because my new goal is to win Elite... and I think the option to do that should be allowed.
It only shouldn't be allowed if there is an overpowered strategy. If there is one then it is more to do with promotion sponsors than pipi imo.
Edit: What the hell I have more paragraphs than Edwin's last post :(
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 27th 2020,19:57:55 ) I'll write the response not to blame the game, neither to excuse myself, just to explain the facts.
Thanks for the reaction, it was not my intention to target you personally and I'm glad that the discussion did not devolve into a flamewar. :)
It's an interesting turn in the discussion though. You claimed that the game would have rewarded you more if you'd picked Pipis, but essentially you now added: "...but I would have been rewarded even more if I'd picked Contis".
Your relegation may symbolize the (excessive?) importance of getting lucky with weather randomness, not that the sponsorship and Pipi situation in Elite is broken.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ September 27th 2020,22:30:27 ) It's an interesting turn in the discussion though. You claimed that the game would have rewarded you more if you'd picked Pipis, but essentially you now added: "...but I would have been rewarded even more if I'd picked Contis".
Your relegation may symbolize the (excessive?) importance of getting lucky with weather randomness, not that the sponsorship and Pipi situation in Elite is broken.
I truly don't know. Off the bat, my retention chances were higher with BYs because there were 5 BRs (all of them handled by very prepared drivers) and 12 Contis. I haven't stopped to figure out what would have happened had I gone Contis. Most likely better in overall performance, given the weather distribution of the season, but retention chances wise, I don't really know.
However, I don't think that should be the focus of the discussion. Even if we assume under less stressful conditions I should have retained, every season there are 15 managers demoting from Elite and for almost all of them going Pipis would have been a better option. Thus, for all managers giving it a try when the outcome is unclear is a worse decision than surrendering off the bat. That's not only my opinion, but also implied by basic arithmetic and by the fact Pipis have the highest share in Elite than in Pro and Master for many seasons in a row already. I don't think that's a right state of things.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 27th 2020,22:42:05 ) However, I don't think that should be the focus of the discussion.
It should and it shouldn't.The specifics of your situation are irrelevant (in case it wasn't clear, my "why?" question earlier was rhetorical). My point remains that in your situation it would have been madness to pick Pipis. You had very good odds of retaining, it just went south for various reasons. It can happen, but it doesn't mean that the game is broken.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 27th 2020,22:42:05 ) Even if we assume under less stressful conditions I should have retained, every season there are 15 managers demoting from Elite and for almost all of them going Pipis would have been a better option. Thus, for all managers giving it a try when the outcome is unclear is a worse decision than surrendering off the bat.
Of course with hindsight it's better to relegate after a Pipi season than after a season spent trying to retain on more expensive tyres. But to state that this means it's better not to try unless you're certain to succeed is a serious non sequitur. By that logic we should see more than 20 Pips in Elite each season.
I don't think comparing the number of Pipis in Elite with that in Pro or Master is fair either. Those tiers are harder to thrive in financially on Pips, because finishing last in Elite give more money than in Master/Pro and because they have lower thresholds for relegation tax.
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Okay. I see it in a different light, now. I was wrong in ass-u-me-ing 🤔 you were 'moaning' my apologies. 😌 I wondered 'What the hell came over him??' 🙀 lol
Edit; I can only dream of being in such a situation, being worried about relegating from Elite. roflmao
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ September 28th 2020,02:18:37 ) Of course with hindsight it's better to relegate after a Pipi season than after a season spent trying to retain on more expensive tyres. But to state that this means it's better not to try unless you're certain to succeed is a serious non sequitur. By that logic we should see more than 20 Pips in Elite each season.
This is precisely where we disagree, it seems. Last season, for example, the average earnings (excepting sponsorship) minus expenditures from retainers in Elite accounted for roughly 75M in the red. I can guesstimate around 140% sponsorship advance during the season for those managers which is I think a fair value for their average place 15, and maybe a little inflated considering it is impossible they converted their whole negotiations to full sponsorship (i.e. they may have stayed idle here and there waiting for a better sponsor, they may have wasted some losing negotiations and they may have lost some of the effective advance due to contract breaks).
With these probably optimistic estimations, the average retaining manager requires their sponsors to be worth in average 54M just to barely break even (54*1.4 = 75.6). Now, whereas Elite sponsorship is good, it isn't thaaaat good. Thus, in overall Elite is bleeding resources at a very high rate and in specific some managers are completely breaking their finances.
This leads to the dilemma many managers face: on the one hand, fight that uphill battle, a battle in which, mind you, medium and long term victory isn't achieved simply by retaining, but also by overcoming these very complicated finances numbers. On the other corner, instead, they can choose to Pipis demote, bringing a strong driver to Master and, if cards are correctly played, coming back in Elite with yet another promotion sponsor. To me, for a huge majority of managers it should be straightforward, to the point when you question why there aren't 20 Pipis in Elite I pose that question myself. I have no clue, because as it stands now it should be a no brainer.
That's why I propose some things:
1. Encourage people to give Elite a try: as I said in another thread, the Elite income is awfully low. I stated my own numbers from S76: I'd have required to somehow get the 3rd-4th best performance at S76 while spending the equivalent to the 18th manager in expenditures just to break even finances wise. That with the aforementioned very good driver roster and while using a non-luxury tyre. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Resources intake in Elite (and Pro and Master as well, which suffer from the same economy issues and are challenged by a bigger number of rich guys arriving from Amateur) should be improved.
2. Discourage people from going Pipis: Going Pipis is a very overpowered move. You get cash, a great car, a powerful and cheap driver to lay waste on Master and a future additional promo sponsor to be added to the stash. I wouldn't like this option to be nerfed to the point of forcing managers to go to Amateur instead, but maybe a good middle way can be achieved by preventing promo sponsor accumulation. I'm not a fan of removing promotion sponsors from demoters, but instead I think promo sponsors shouldn't be 100% reserves but they should be immediately put online (or forfeited by the manager if he deems that better) and they shouldn't be allowed to be used as a launching platform for getting further 100% reserves (i.e. if a negotiation for the spot is completed, it replaces the online promotion sponsor). This if promo sponsors are off the book, because in my opinion it would be even better if promo sponsors were outright eliminated.
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Establishing in elite for a long time requires to be able to take Hancock/Michi/Bridge every couple of seasons, with some Conti/Badyear every now and then to train driver and make a little money while sponsors will not complain. How many managers can do that? Can't count more than 5 currently. They will sign good sponsors that will bring resources for them to continue being in top of Elite. Promo sponsors make your life easier in first couple of seasons after promoting to Elite, when you cannot activate any real sponsor because your inconsistent performances do not allow that.
I don't get your point about taking away promo sponsors. I understand you don't like them because of some reason, but what kind of other changes do you expect to happen in Elite? From what I see, establishing in elite and winning a championship is hard even with accumulating several promo sponsors, I don't see many master managers breaking into elite and beating everybody.
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There's also the assumption that taking Pipirelli tyres is some sort of magic wand that is guaranteed to make you amazing for many seasons to come. The only thing it guarantees is that you're getting crap finishes all season and the crap prize money that goes with it. If you decide to take a development driver then that makes it even worse, it might even mean not making 90% of the race distance sometimes. Of course the cheap tyre costs offset that, but if you want to build a great CAR as well, that costs money. And you can't just smoke every race because you then can't test. Even on Pipi tyres you still need to plan well if you want to come out the other end looking stronger.
Take it from someone who has looked at their season plan and thought "this can't be right, I thought Pipirellis were meant to stop me going into debt?"
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Since we're doing case studies, I'd like to use my own to make a point.
I reached elite in S67 without using any of my promo sponsors (ammy/pro/master) and around 70 mil. I ended S70 (1st title) already reaching a positive cycle in Elite. I was making profit. My frozen sponsor income had gone up by close to 100 mil in that span with respect to the S67 R1 baseline. Still without using any of the promo sponsors. This does not even include any active negotiations that I may have had at the end of S70. The first seasons are obviously going to be sap money, should it not be like that? The challenge is long term sustainability.
That was the time matching was just introduced and people were adapting. But now it seems the expenditure has risen, at least for the championship season. For others, maybe not because of the BY option and in general not splurging beyond their means. This time (After doing a pipi relegation), I used a couple of those promo sponsors along the way but wouldn't have gone negative even without them. Especially, if you consider how much of it was taxed. So the utility of promo sponsors had more to do with providing confidence than any real advantage.
My staff levels in both push season (S70 and S77) was almost identical (gained non trainables), ccps went up marginally. The frozen income has gone under the new baseline (S74 R1) but that has to do with planning to push more than one season and S76 being a little crazy.
Anyway, this information can probably be interpreted in more than one way but the point I am trying to make is - Anyone promoting in a decent shape can make a championship push (push being the key word, nothing can guarantee a win). Doing many cycles like Jan did was to help him do multiple. I don't know the objectives of others. If they have a similar plan and the confidence that it will work, fair enough. But I've seen multiple managers failing to even make a dent. Package wise you can't improve much after 1-2 cycles, if at all you need it. Only thing you gain is a promo sponsor (which I am totally in favour of limiting, even if just for stopping people from getting misled into thinking it's going to change their fortunes).
Case of Bert Huylebroeck would be an even better example because he managed to do a push in Elite (which broke his positive cycle, if he hadn't pushed he could've continued improving his package) with a laughable package in master even two seasons before promotion. Did not even bring up a trained driver and got his fair share of randoms along the way.
Of course this does not mean relegating with pipis does not help. Sure it does, if done right. Some people genuinely need it too which is why I don't want the option to simply go away. However, in most cases people will be better off testing the waters in Elite and learning from that rather than wasting real life years bouncing around. The experience of picking Michis in my first ever Elite season gave me more than pipi cycles ever could. I hope people realise that.
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I'm not entirely sure what's your point, Yug. Already discounting taxes, a rough estimation is you burnt in the +60M ballpark cash between your last Amateur and your promotion to Elite seasons. With this I'm far from saying you did badly, but instead the Ammy route was surely effective: you accumulated enough cash to make it to Elite without even requiring to burn the promotion sponsors, at the cost of investing said cash. This isn't far from the journey of my team mate Nev, who didn't require to use any of his promotion sponsors and instead fueled the Pro and Master seasons, including a Michis one, with Ammy cash. This should certainly be an argument towards something I keep saying: resources accumulation in Amateur is a very powerful move even without promo sponsors being a factor. Naturally overkill once they are accounted for.
In any case I'd appreciate some feedback, from anybody, regarding to the Elite Pipis situation. I've already mentioned the economy troubles in Elite. I'll further expand on that by showing the approximate deficit per retaining manager in Elite last season as in total income excepting sponsors minus total expenditures. The values are approximate due to a few uncertainties (hidden R17 expenditures values), but with losses underestimations anyways due to assuming very low numbers for the hidden values (just 3M in S&F + driver + TD salaries combined) and not including losses via DNS and out of 90% rule, which happened a few times. The tool also assumes the same Q as R position, which isn't naturally true, but it balances out although producing a small value discrepancy:
Yug Desai -157
George Slater -137
Kamal Naoui -121
Rowie Halcon -109
Jean-marc Boissinot -104
Roland Postle -103
Diogo Abdalla -101
Ethan Littlejohns -85
Andreas Ramann -85
Pablo Fernandez -84
Rimantas Sagatas -82
Klas Britse -82
Harsh Sheth -79
Andrea Squizzato -75
Ayman Daher -71
Kuba Szajbel -70
Tan S Lake -67
Christos Bobolis -52
Jasper Coosemans -45
Joachim Rang -45
Luca Molendi -28
Martynas Bražėnas -27
Ioannis Dimitroglou -24
Gonzalo Alvarez -18
Róbert László -18
Off the bat, I can't identify but maybe 7 managers who, combining these numbers with their average results (to account for estimated sponsorship advance), did fine: Andreas, Christos, Jasper, Joachim, Martynas, Gonzalo and Róbert. 1 of them heavily helped by an unlikely retention with Pipis and another one because of a very risky retention with Dunnos. This already being optimistic with their actual sponsorship intake, because it's probable Andreas didn't gather the 85M sponsorship he required to break even (not to get richer; just to stay in the black). From this already short set, 3 managers were enjoying from their very prepared brought from Amateur drivers, which implies they were already in the profiting part of the equation, but in average they ended S76 48M poorer than the cash they started their Elite season with (and looking at their current sponsorship, probably 2 of them also with decreasing sponsorship reserves), so in a longer term window 2 of these managers are still bleeding resources.
This should be a clear indication of how bad finances are in Elite. Doing fine, stretching the definition of "fine", required the managers to be on the good side of driver development (all these 7 managers had already very prepared drivers, most of them already in their apex), false actual overall good economy balance (some of these managers, even with the good S76, are in quite worse economy shape than a few seasons ago), and in 2 cases retention achieved with cheap tyres. Maybe we can add Roland to this set, because he consistently gets +100M in sponsorship per season, so the ~103M deficit in his numbers are maybe countered by what he actually gathered, but that's definitely a very particular exception.
Promotion sponsors and brought from lower leagues cash cause a heavy economy discrepancy which in medium and long term wrecks managers who are unable to sustain the finances pressure (hence why we can't find but very specific cases of healthy economy situations in Elite) and on the other corner, normal assets intake in Elite (Pro and Master as well, although not shown in these numbers) are wholly inadequate. Thus my 2 proposals to balance things better: promo sponsors nerfing but increasing the regular intake in Pro to Elite.
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Okay, I'm going to contradict myself here:
I was telling Jasper that his post was not so nice to you and that it felt a bit unnecessary to me.
But I think I'm going to change my mind on that one...
Edwin, next time you promote to Elite, if you spend as much time for your season planning than you do for crafting your posts in this thread, I'm sure you will do fine on any tyre! ;-)
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Quote ( Joachim Rang @ September 29th 2020,17:35:51 ) I was telling Jasper that his post was not so nice to you and that it felt a bit unnecessary to me.
But I think I'm going to change my mind on that one...
Please don't. :(
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Remove unclaimed promotion sponsors upon relegation to the tier they were awarded from. ie remove an unclaimed sponsor awarded for promotion from Master upon relegation back to Master.
This allows them to keep their intended purpose - financial bonuses to aid with building in a new tier - while completely removing the exploit.
This also sets a hard limit to 4 promotion sponsors, only if you keep all promotion sponsors since your promotion from Rookie. A limit of 3 realistically since returning to Rookie is a big nope for many. And that in itself could also be a potential detriment by blocking negotiation spots and therefore reducing total negotiation progress.
If a manager is set on relegation they can simply accept the sponsors. A notification after the final race of the season to all managers in the relegation zone could remind people to do so. If a spot is filled already and you physically cannot accept the sponsor, I say tough luck tbh. It isn't difficult to have a spot free to be able to sign the sponsor, especially since the game makes it as easy as possible for you.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 29th 2020,16:41:21 ) the ~103M deficit in his numbers are maybe countered by what he actually gathered
Sadly not :(
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Introduce retention sponsor in highest tiers (master and elite, maybe pro, 0,8-1,5 mill to 8-16 races).
Reduce tyre prices back, where was 20-30 season ago.
Increase number of available sponsors in Elite by 20-30%.
Problem solved, and can keep promotion sponsors... ;)
Also, don't forget, that in the past, when you could negotiate up to 10 sponsors even in Amateur, the preparation for Elite was to make sponsor reserves, not really to pump up your balance. Now, this moved to promotion sponsors. If you restrict this, it will reduce the newcomers chances to be able to remain in Elite for long(er) term. But if this is the target, then this is the move.
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