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Topic: "Live" qualifying |
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#61 posted Nov 11th 2014, 23:19:01
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Like the idea! more experts word is needed in this topic.
Being implemented, I think that the information if a manager has qualified or not should be available for every one to see. Qualifying times hiden til live Q.
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There should be some sort of alternative for standard qualy, cause admins probably wouldnt allow no action betwen races. For example, visible times of practice laps. And btw Rafael, thumbs up from me for your honesty. :)
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#63 posted Nov 11th 2014, 23:25:28
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Brilliant original idea, too bad it's being over complicated by a few of the posts. I don't see how anyone can think this is a bad idea.
Would solve the "problem" of people waiting to the last minute to qualify and give it a more realistic feel.
Would be simple to implement, all the times would be set beforehand so race time wouldn't be affected.
Best idea I've seen on forums.
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#64 posted Nov 11th 2014, 23:25:45
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I'm all in for no time zone advantages (despite I myself am pretty much available during the market and race deadlines), plus the idea sounds cool. While we are at it, please hide the tyre choice at the beginning of the season too. :)
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#65 posted Nov 11th 2014, 23:37:47
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 11th 2014,23:25:45 ) While we are at it, please hide the tyre choice at the beginning of the season too. :)
Where is the point in that in your case? You're always running Pipis anyway ;p
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#66 posted Nov 11th 2014, 23:42:14
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Quote ( Christoph Seifriedsberger @ November 11th 2014,23:37:47 ) Where is the point in that in your case? You're always running Pipis anyway ;p
Certainly. But I'd love the mystery of not knowing what tyres did you choose.
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#67 posted Nov 12th 2014, 00:40:11
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Anything that takes out the time zone advantage should be implemented or at least considered, and that said I'm one of those lucky managers who can be online at all deadlines like markets, Qualys etc...
I don't find fair to have advantage over other people just because the part of the world where you live. The game should be as fair as possible for all managers. So any change related to equalize things between different time zones managers has a yes from me ;)
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this Live qualify proposed here is the same used at f1rb . uol. com. br.
there you can see the cars moving at qualify and race , and sound of a v10...
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#69 posted Nov 12th 2014, 06:35:35
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This would be a huge game change, not just a cosmetic one. The cons are far too many, in my opinion. Sorry, the idea is good but it isn't good enough to be implemented IMO.
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#70 posted Nov 12th 2014, 06:38:57
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Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ November 12th 2014,06:35:35 ) This would be a huge game change, not just a cosmetic one. The cons are far too many, in my opinion. Sorry, the idea is good but it isn't good enough to be implemented IMO.
Far too many?
List the cons.....
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#71 posted Nov 12th 2014, 08:10:40
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Live qualifying as in forcing ppl to qualify in a small time frame is a huge NO.
Live qualifying as in seeing a replay might work if you do it along the lines as proposed in this post:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=1429&PostId=29208#post29208
All in all it would (o rmight) add some fun but given the timezone limits and therefor preset choices and don't think we will see huge differences in the final grid.
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#72 posted Nov 12th 2014, 08:25:13
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ November 12th 2014,08:10:40 ) Live qualifying as in forcing ppl to qualify in a small time frame is a huge NO.
Live qualifying as in seeing a replay might work if you do it along the lines as proposed in this post:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=1429&PostId=29208#post29208
All in all it would (o rmight) add some fun but given the timezone limits and therefor preset choices and don't think we will see huge differences in the final grid.
I think the suggestion here is not for a change in the qualification system, but only in the display.
Ie the largest impact this woukd have is to hide qualifying times until after qual had closed, at which point some sort of race like graphical display would show the cars qualifying to add flavor.
This is of course the biggest arguement against this. The individuals who are able to, and feel that doing qual at the last minute gives an advantage... will be against this.
It could add some flavor to the game, at the cost of some server resources. That is really the only true con that i can see (other than taking away any advantage felt by those who can do their qual at last minute).
How it woukd be displayed to meet the time frame (qual closing and race starting) would be up for debate.... me personally.. i think the best optjon would be for groups of 10 cars to go out for q1 .. do 3 laps (out, flying, in) ... 4 total groups there (managers randomly chosen and spread evenly on track) .... this takes 6 minutes per group.... 24 minutes in total.
Repeat the same process for q2 (maybe a 10 minute break between q1 a d q2 just for visual seperation of quals) ... 4 groups of 10 randomly chosen cars for 3 laps of q2 (out, flying, in) .... so again 4x6 minutes... total of 24 minutes.
So... 24 + 10 + 24 ..... 58 minutes to complete the display of qual.
If qual starts 10 minutes after qual closes.... then that leaves 22 minutes after the display of qualification until the race .... for online people to view and discuss final qualification results.
(Sorry for typo, on phone)
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ November 12th 2014,08:25:13 ) If qual starts 10 minutes after qual closes...
Time loop? :-D
Seriously speaking, I like the idea of hiding Q times, even I'm one of those who can be online when qualifying ends.
And there are my 0,03 PLN (= ca. 0,01 USD :-D) about graphical presentation:
- the cars are shown one by one at the finish line, in the order managers made their quals, with "live commentarys" (supporters only?) like: "Tomek Kiełpiński makes a perfect lap and is currently 1st" or "Roland Postle made a mistake in corner 3 and lost the PP To Tomek Kiełpiński by 0,005s" (:-P)
- there's no need to wait 30 seconds to see another car on the grid. I think 5 seconds are more than enough to read the commentary and will pass fast enough to keep quals dynamic. If not, one can set his own refresh time (like in race replay)
- Q2 are shown in the same manner, but in a reverse order.
- At every moment one can skip "live" quals and see the final Q tables and starting grid.
- There is no need to set the hour of "live" quals. Anyone logging between quals end and race could see it at any time (maybe an automatic login similar to redirecting to race replay after missing it live, could be a good idea)
Edit: Some typos corrected
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#74 posted Nov 12th 2014, 09:51:35 (last edited Nov 12th 2014, 09:52:13 by Jon Day)
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Quote ( João Monteiro  @ November 11th 2014,19:56:31 ) and what about to hide weather forecast too? Thats done before the start of a season (when you have to guess which tyre is best) :P
As for the op, I really like the idea :)
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#75 posted Nov 12th 2014, 10:04:29
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Great Idea, Rogerio. I agree
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ November 12th 2014,08:10:40 ) Live qualifying as in forcing ppl to qualify in a small time frame is a huge NO.
This was not the proposal in the opening post. It was stated there (and more aptly described in later posts) that the routine is the same. A race ends, the clock starts ticking down to the next, with Qs deadline -1h30 from that.
So, if you Q right after processing of the previous race or in the last minute before the next, one would keep the ability to do that anyway.
Change would be the Q times being hidden (which was also not the main focus of the proposal here, just a "side effect" if you like) and would start being disclosed after Q deadline in a graphical fashion similar or not to the race screen.
The display could either be a variation of the race screen with cars going to track and setting Q1 and Q2 times one by one at short intervals (I think 30s refresh time would make it boring), or the display could emulate somehow that of official F1 Qs just to take an easy example, with a table that is continuously filled up one by one as "cars goes to track", with managers order being updated as new times are set (much like the current +1, +2, +3, -1, -2 graphic info when an overtake happens).
The game that gave me the idea of proposing this has 12sec refresh intervals and the lap times are shown in a table format (as oposed to "cars in track" option) with "sector 1, sector 2, sector 3" partial times, then a final refresh that sums up the time and places that manager in the grid/table. Then comes next manager and so on.
Quote ( Hans Barf @ November 12th 2014,08:10:40 ) Live qualifying as in seeing a replay might work if you do it along the lines as proposed in this post:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=1429&PostId=29208#post29208
Had not find this one thread before, 'cause I searched for "qualify", not "qual". Missed that one. Anyway, as Tomek just pointed out, I dont think a change to a multi stage Q (Q1, Q2, Q3 etc.) would be necessary. It's more like the addition of a new feature to the game than changing any routine.
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ November 12th 2014,08:25:13 ) This is of course the biggest arguement against this. The individuals who are able to, and feel that doing qual at the last minute gives an advantage... will be against this.
This one point had not been the motivation for the current proposal, tho its valid that given managers who currently have a slight advantage due to the time zone thing (who are "comfortable with the system") will be strongly against a change that takes their advantage away.
IMO, this would be another beneficial "side effect" of the proposal.
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#77 posted Nov 12th 2014, 12:49:29
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I was just pointing out what is essentially the only con to this suggestion (if you can call it that) from an managerial point of view.
Obviously the admins will have the server load consideration, and time/work to implement consideration. But these are not really concerns of managers.... as they really have no idea what the impact or resources (server or man hours) those considerations would have or require.
I could see a case for not doing this in rookie.... so that new managers would have a little more information starting off. Plus, limiting such a thing to ama and above would help reduce the server strain from rendering so many groups. I do not think it should be a pro and above implementation though, as it might make the learning curve from ama to pro just a little steeper for some.
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#78 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:05:09
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I like the idea, but I don't like the 'not knowing what position I've qualified in' part, purely because of the fact I live I'm Australia and I'm not staying up until 3, 4 in the morning to see where I've qualified. I don't stay or get up to watch the races as it is. The idea of having another live session to watch is good, but as mentioned prior there's not much point in implementing it if the qualifying times aren't going to be hidden and that's what I would be against. I don't wait until the last minute to try gain an advantage. My times are usually in with about 5 hours to spare, that's just the time I qualify at as it's 22:00 and I'm heading to bed.
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#79 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:10:28
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Quote ( Chris John Collins @ November 12th 2014,13:05:09 ) I'm not staying up until 3, 4 in the morning to see where I've qualified. I don't stay or get up to watch the races as it is.
If the qualifying times were to be hidden, then there should be some way to view them when you next log in, even if the race has been completed.
Similar to how you can view the race without finding out your result, if you set things up that way, you should be able to view qualifying without getting the result, and, once "live qualifying" is in replay mode, like a race after the update, you would be able to skip to the end and see the results if you want.
This would then make virtually no difference to those logging in after the race and still wanting the same experience they get just now - you can still see where you qualified before seeing any race results.
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#80 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:29:25
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ November 11th 2014,19:48:06 ) but would add a bit more "liveness" to GPRO and some suspense with the grid being defined right before the race.
I like the idea and I totally agree with this point.
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#81 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:42:57
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I like the idea of creating more thrill to the game,
but I also think you need to be able to adapt your race strategy
based on your grid position, or even based on who's in front or behind you.
The only way I see this could work for all time zones is if:
- Market is on Sundays and Wednesdays
- Qualifying deadline is on Mondays and Thursdays + Live grid
- Race strategy deadline is on Tuesdays and Fridays + Live race
And obviously grid replay is available until the race.
And race replay is available until the next race.
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#82 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:46:04
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Quote ( Michael Verschuure @ November 12th 2014,13:42:57 ) And obviously grid replay is available until the race.
No. Must be available after the race as described in #79 or it isn't fair on those that can't watch it live.
Quote ( Michael Verschuure @ November 12th 2014,13:42:57 ) I also think you need to be able to adapt your race strategy
based on your grid position, or even based on who's in front or behind you
So if I'm in your group and can't log on Friday, so must qualify before then, then you get an advantage that I don't have simply due to when I can be online? And what if it was my timezone that caused me to not be on near deadline? That would "disadvantage" me every race then? That's not fair.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,13:46:04 ) No. Must be available after the race as described in #79 or it isn't fair on those that can't watch it live.
You'd have a whole day to watch it live.
That suits every time zone.
But if you missed it, sure, why not,
or just watch the race, and you'll see your grid position anyway.
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,13:46:04 ) So if I'm in your group and can't log on Friday, so must qualify before then, then you get an advantage that I don't have simply due to when I can be online?
That's how it is now !! The suggestion solves that.
Not that it's always a determining advantage because there is a big difference in managers skills in amateur,
but I'm sure the higher you get in the leagues the smaller the difference and the bigger the advantage.
How else would you describe the fact that almost nobody qualifies in the higher leagues before the last day !
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#84 posted Nov 12th 2014, 13:56:50
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Quote ( Michael Verschuure @ November 12th 2014,13:54:56 ) You'd have a whole day to watch it live.
That suits every time zone, and if you missed it,
then just watch the race, and you'll see your grid position anyway.
Sorry, I missed a bit of what you said, my mistake.
Quote ( Michael Verschuure @ November 12th 2014,13:42:57 ) - Market is on Sundays and Wednesdays
- Qualifying deadline is on Mondays and Thursdays + Live grid
- Race strategy deadline is on Tuesdays and Fridays + Live race
Only giving a single day to do your race strategy is a terrible idea, IMO. I'd miss many races if that was the case, and I'm sure plenty people with families and full time jobs would be in a similar position.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,13:56:50 ) Only giving a single day to do your race strategy is a terrible idea
I agree, that is why you can still do every thing at once.
If you qualify right before the deadline (as a lot of people do right now),
you can see the live result on the grid and adapt your race strategy straight away.
For those who don't have that luxury, they have a whole day to slightly
change the risks on their strategy.
And for those who still can't, well, then they'd have the same situation as now.
I think it reduces the number of people with a disadvantage,
because they cannot log at the last minute,
it does not completely eliminate it.
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#86 posted Nov 12th 2014, 14:06:17
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Why not eliminate it though? Why should anyone have that "advantage"?
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The only way to eliminate it is by not allowing to change race strategy after qualifying is realeased.
But that removes a small feature of the game.
But then (and i'm only exagerating to make a point)
What about the advantage a manager has by calculating his fuel consumption with accuracy
as opposed to one that puts in too much fuel because he doesn't want to store data !
Should you then just say how many stops you want to do and let the game tell you how much fuel to put in.
And so on...
I think it reduces the disadvantage for those who want,
and the others can still play the game as it is !
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#88 posted Nov 12th 2014, 15:27:51
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Quote ( Michael Verschuure @ November 12th 2014,14:33:19 ) The only way to eliminate it is by not allowing to change race strategy after qualifying is realeased.
But that removes a small feature of the game.
But then (and i'm only exagerating to make a point)
What about the advantage a manager has by calculating his fuel consumption with accuracy
as opposed to one that puts in too much fuel because he doesn't want to store data !
Should you then just say how many stops you want to do and let the game tell you how much fuel to put in.
And so on...
I think it reduces the disadvantage for those who want,
and the others can still play the game as it is !
Did you read the suggestion and the following conversation at all?
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#89 posted Nov 12th 2014, 15:59:07
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Did you ??
I'm for the idea (read post 81) !!
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ November 12th 2014,08:25:13 ) Ie the largest impact this woukd have is to hide qualifying times until after qual had closed, at which point some sort of race like graphical display would show the cars qualifying to add flavor.
This is of course the biggest arguement against this. The individuals who are able to, and feel that doing qual at the last minute gives an advantage... will be against this.
A reminder: There's more to it than the people who think there is a "last minute advantage"
Remember that weather is based on Elite race time. IF qually times are hidden, how can one (in any group/level) estimate the upcoming weather ??
So, it's about more than just "last minute", even now on Wednesday there are benefits of being able to see qually times (as there are 2 performances to evaluate).
Even when you're qualifying early you can benefit from seeing the times.
seems that people have been forgetting that part
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