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Topic: [Mafia] The Office - GAME OVER |
4490 replies
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Quote ( Mike Baston @ September 6th 2018,12:35:57 ) Quote ( Gareth Griffiths @ September 6th 2018,04:32:30 )
Damn. I had in my notes why is Kevin not dead. Well done Kevin and Tom.
Thanks Ivelin. Great game to play
Then why didn't you put it in the thread then & at least give some support to what I was thinking even if it did seem far fetched.
If we had been able to vote Kevin in final game day based on our hunches then it would most likely have outed Tom as mafia if he stood with Kevin & then just had to convince Harsh. Yeah, I know. Still believed Kevin as town (and being so busy didn't help)
Kevin, played a blinder mate
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First of all, I want to talk about balance. I believe I did a great job balancing the game (and that’s what took the most time). As Kevin mentioned, normally, the game was unbalanced towards town.
They had a Cop, a Dreamer (the Drunk modifier was a brilliant last minute addition) and the Flying (Pumpkin) Beet whose Aim ability was basically an investigation. They had a Poison Doc who could stop the kill on 2 occasions. They had a Watcher/Tracker. They had a half-Commuter which is another protective role. The Dreaming God could have messed up Mafia’s plans. Obviously, I had to throw some misleading roles (CFV, half-Miller).
And then you had the Mafia. They were basically two teams of 2 plus the Lovers who not only didn’t share the same wincon, but depended on each other.
I was expecting the moaning to be more about how I made the game bastard by trying too hard to balance things, so people saying it was balanced towards Mafia for other reasons is disappointing. Truth is Town’s PRs didn’t do a great job and/or weren’t believed (YOU HAD A MAFIA RESULT ON KEVIN!!).
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Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ September 6th 2018,16:57:39 ) YOU HAD A MAFIA RESULT ON KEVIN!!
Bottom line this is why we lost. We should have just lynched him
Grant - I was always a bit confused as to why you didn't push Kevin's lynch hard
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Kirsty
I think you actually played well, had good reads (rare feat :P) and Mafia were absolutely right to get rid of you ASAP. You didn’t take the Poison Doc role and while I understand your reasons, all the talking about Poison, including from Cameron who had flipped scum, would heavily suggest there is poison involved.
In hindsight, I probably could have sent you Lyee’s Role PM, but that’s against what your Role PM, so I’m glad I didn’t.
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GG well played everyone. Very well done Mafia ☺️
I only dipped in occasionally after day 2 (Christ reading day 1 was hard work)
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Well if I am ever a lover in the future and I start tunnelling someone then you'll know who to lynch.
Might also draw up some final notes (I've had enough of Kevin claiming what he did was moral), mainly that it might be a good idea to suspect people ending the day in the end game. It happened in this game and it happened in the Pie mafia. Also I think that from now on we can't rely on people putting on an act as a reason to not do anything about them - I've been guilty of this but I have also seen it in other players as well. As for me, well I'm going to warn everyone that I have a new plan going forward. Not saying what it is but I think it will be more ordinary, and to be honest playing the way I have has taken a toll on me.
Oh and playing without Kirsty isn't going to be the same.
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Michael
It was your first game yes, but I felt like you were struggling to put your thoughts clearly. People had to guess what you meant most of the time. I don’t understand why you assumed that visiting Mafia would kill you and you made believe others it was the case. Overall, you were struggling for content more often than not and obviously that didn’t look very townie.
With that said, I think you have the potential to become better (I know you won’t be around a lot in the following months), but would be good to see you play again, possibly in a more easier setup.
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Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ September 6th 2018,17:00:53 ) YOU HAD A MAFIA RESULT ON KEVIN! Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ September 6th 2018,17:00:53 )
Bottom line this is why we lost. We should have just lynched him
Actually, everything I said to try and defend myself from the guilty result was perfectly valid.
Why Grant came out so hard on day 2 and made himself obviously cop, even before the claim, is where the mistake was, in my opinion. By all means, crumb the result so it's clear if you're killed, but try and get at least a few results under your belt to at least try and confirm sanity, if nothing else.
If I was town, it's perfectly plausible that I was framed or bus-drivered to make me look guilty, especially on night 1, but if that leads to my mislynch, that's well played by scum. Infuriating as hell for a town me, and maybe a reason to consider not auto-investigating / watching or whatever me on night 1 of any closed game, but unlikely to save me, especially if cop sanity has been confirmed.
In this game, given I claimed the role Saulius flipper, before he flipped it, and there was no indication of multiple mafia groups, I would have believed I was likely town. Even more so as I didn't target Grant the following night so he had every opportunity to get another result.
If it wasn't for the luck of Saulius flipping my role when he did, I don't doubt I would have been lynched on day 3 and town would likely have went on to a fairly comfortable win. But I don't think you can blame any townie for thinking I was telling the truth. I started to believe me :p
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Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ September 6th 2018,15:14:39 ) I did the same when I was scum with Kirsty - not speaking in the QT for a while so she did not know who her buddy was
It's fun, and if the mod is not going to name your buddies in your PM or in the opening QT post, then why not :)
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Martin
Definitely has potential at becoming a good mafia player. Invested a lot of time, a lot of thoughts (maybe too much :P). It was probably not the best game to have as a first game as it was quite complicated.
He didn't have any reason to claim, I'm glad he sees it himself. He had a tendency to overthink everything and also was a victim of confirmation bias. By that, I mean, he was way too confident he got the right people to sit with. If I was in his place, I would target different people. There is of course the "I'm noob" talking that not only he was victim of. The language barrier wasn't an issue IMO.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 6th 2018,17:18:44 ) Actually, everything I said to try and defend myself from the guilty result was perfectly valid. Nobody said the opposite. :P
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Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ September 6th 2018,18:10:28 ) Nobody said the opposite. :P
Don't partial quote, you scummy bar steward :p Need the full post for the context ;)
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Yug
You played a good game I think, considering the (shitty) role he had. You managed to attract a NK on N1 and avoided being investigated on even nights. You looked really townie and I still don't understand how you was labeled as scum on D5. I understand the power of POE, but there are other ways to scumhunt.
You are definitely a good addition to GPRO Mafia and I'm looking forward to playing with you. :)
One obvious thing you could have not done is self-hammering, Harsh and Gareth being seen as reluctant to hammer would have given them even more of a townie look. I realize you did all you could to convince others you are not scum, but you didn't do much to convince others that someone else is scum (from what I remember).
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Harsh
Crumbing was unnecessary, I feel like Saulius may have picked up on it (he didn't explain why he wanted to freeze you). Obviously, the discussion about crumbs was done after your crumb. Also, half-claiming when hammering George was not the right decision. I understand it was the excitement of catching someone in a lie though.
And the biggest mistake (that you already admitted) was to be too convinced there is one scum left. But I am sure you will learn and also have potential at becoming a good player.
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Gareth
I don't know why you thought you should claim in the Beach Games thread. You couldn't know the others were town. Also, considering Mike claimed Vig was a mistake, he claimed a very specific role that looks like a Vig but is not really a Vig.
Activity issues might explain most of the trouble you had.
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Riley
I know it could have been frustrating to see people think that the dream you had was perceived as Gareth's ability, but you went way too hard trying to show it wasn't. You also didn't have to claim. And when claiming, leaving part of your claim was wrong IMO. It just messed up D4 and Michael was left in the middle with a dream result that people didn't believe.
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Alex
I felt sorry for you as soon as you drew the role you had. I think you did look like the scummy Alex you usually look like. One would think you'd get better at playing as Mafia since you almost always draw a mafia role. But I guess you need to play as town as well to be able to develop your Mafia play (trying to look town).
Obviously you made a mistake at having Cameron as your top lynch candidate, only to switch to Lyee.
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Grant
You played well, but as Kevin said, you claimed too early and claiming in a Beach Games QT was wrong on so many levels. Overall you played well, probably needed to push harder on your result. Also, you couldn't expect the game to finish in 2-3 weeks. :P
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Lyee
Also played well considering it was your first game. Played way too much the noob card, it always looks scummy. Died too soon and so long ago that I don't remember much more I can comment on. :)
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Nah, I was sincerely the worst player in this game.
Yall may disagree, but you wont sway me.
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Tom
You were okay as Mafia, lurking quite a lot. I am really surprised you didn't get more heat for that. You sharing the dream made you look town for some reason (I would have shared it too, even if it involved a buddy). I still don't understand how did people believe your claim. It looked so convenient and you were basically scaring town in lynching you. They should have seen right through it. It worked out well, but claiming a protective role would have been the way to go IMO.
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Quote ( Grant Crouch @ September 6th 2018,19:08:46 ) Nah, I was sincerely the worst player in this game.
Yall may disagree, but you wont sway me. Nah, I'm getting to him now. :)
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Cameron
I can probably write an essay of 3000 words on how bad of a mafia player you are, but I won't. All I will say is I hope you will actually change your approach as you said you will.
If I was in Kevin's place, I would have probably done the same. You have absolutely no right to be mad at him as it was the best thing he did to achieve his own wincon. As soon as he revealed himself, you changed your way of talking with him.
You were obvious scum almost from the get go, not even a 100 posts into the game. Discussing mutliple factions, implying the scum team is 3 people, talking about poison after Kirsty's arsenic joke. Those are just a few of your wrong moves.
I know you will disagree with all that and you won't take all the advice you are given. I don't know why you think you are such a great player and you think you know all the theories of the game when you have been wrong on almost any occasion.
Bottom line is, you are easy to manipulate and incriminate as town and easy to catch as scum.
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George
You started quite well, but you made a few mistakes. I think making a case on Martin as SK was a very good move. However, getting annoyed at Kevin's comment about how the SK didn't think his NKs through looked really bad. Also, your claim was far from perfect, not taking into consideration the possibility of being seen at Kevin was your ultimate downfall.
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Mike
As you said it yourself, you should have pushed more, especially on D5 and 6. You should have made your claim clear and put the emphasis on the role and not the ability. Not sure if you should have mentioned the crumbs you left.
Obviously, you should have used your Aim ability. It's effectively an investigation with an added bonus of killing the scum if you target them.
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Stuart
Before the game, you promised me you will not do a Stuart yet you were really close of being replaced. I will personally hesitate a lot to include you in any of my future games. I don't know for sure you were drunk when you posted all the bullshit, but for me that's wrong and intolerable.
I liked your claim, but the way you tried to look like a Jester was way over-the-top.
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Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ September 6th 2018,19:41:44 ) As you said it yourself, you should have pushed more, especially on D5 and 6. You should have made your claim clear and put the emphasis on the role and not the ability. Not sure if you should have mentioned the crumbs you left.
Obviously, you should have used your Aim ability. It's effectively an investigation with an added bonus of killing the scum if you target them.
The crumbs were only for role though & not leaving any information. Not much different to Harsh's track/watch. Pleased to see you laughed at it in the mod thread. :)
You know forewell the tribulations I had iro using action from my pm's.
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Quote ( Mike Baston @ September 6th 2018,19:47:42 ) You know forewell the tribulations I had iro using action from my pm's. I know, but I didn't agree with them :P
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Kevin
Played almost perfectly I think. You used every element and information to your advantage. You were pretty much leading everybody after your claim. Your claim was very ballsy but worked really well. Not writing in the QT was brilliant.
Observing you as scum has helped me try to read you a bit better I believe.
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