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Sujet: "Live" qualifying |
322 réponses
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#91 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:08:31
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I have a thought on the idea. I can't tell that I'm for this change or against it but I have this question for You all.
We never want to make this game easier but do we want to make it harder?
Cause if this change would be implemented that would mean exact that.
Right now (as many point it out) everyone can adjust his strategy to others who already qualified and this in my opinion makes this game easier.
Of course (also as mentioned) not all of us can make their Q's at the last moment so for them this is a disadvantage.
So I have this idea-maybe it could be added (if added at all) to groups from Pro up (or even Ama up) but leave it out from Rookie. I think many managers having it even harder in rookie will leave this game..
And to be honest all you need to do to benefit from this advantage is reasoning thinking and 1-2 races of observation.
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#92 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:19:36
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,14:06:17 ) Why not eliminate it though? Why should anyone have that "advantage"?
maybe because you had that advantage many season before , if you change this Q , new managers will be most in disadventage. This is managers online game, managers should change everything till start of race.
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#93 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:20:16
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Quote ( Krzysztof Betlewicz @ November 12th 2014,18:08:31 ) So I have this idea-maybe it could be added (if added at all) to groups from Pro up (or even Ama up) but leave it out from Rookie.
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ November 12th 2014,17:49:13 ) Remember that race weather is based on Elite times. IF qually times are hidden, how can anyone (in any group/level) estimate the upcoming weather ??
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#94 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:25:12
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I presume that if this were introduced then the race time would have to be delayed? I arrive at this by assuming that between the end of Q and the beginning of the 'live' race that the Admins do their bit to run the race script?
Ref yesterday's race: I did Q on Thursday night, as always, and chose to run a two stop because those around me that might, cough, be difficult to pass were likely on a 3 stop. That meant that eventually I got some clear air and achieved a better result. Under this proposal it would be impossible to take that strategic decision.
Anything that removes a strategic choice gets a no from me as sometimes you have to do things differently to outfox those who insist on "being difficult to pass".
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#95 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:37:10
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ November 12th 2014,17:49:13 ) Remember that weather is based on Elite race time. IF qually times are hidden, how can one (in any group/level) estimate the upcoming weather ??
One can estimate this from past seasons. Never actually bothered to look at current Elite times for this. Again, I can be doing it all wrong.
Quote ( Mark Wright @ November 12th 2014,18:25:12 ) outfox those who insist on "being difficult to pass".
Never found a manager "easy to pass" (except on Ovals) around, so I always presume everyone is difficult to pass and plan accordingly.
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#96 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:38:26
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I remember once I was talking to a manager about the tyre choice selection. I found it weird most people, specially in Elite, waiting for as long as possible to pick their tyres to get a "strategic advantage". That particular manager was against the idea of hiding the tyre choice because the availability of being online for most deadlines was a "strategic advantage" that manager did not want to lose.
Here is the same. To be able to run your qualys after most people have done their isn't any strategic boldness. It is time zone advantage, that's all. Mostly negligible, yes. Most of the times your better strategy isn't defined by a few places in the grid, but by the weather and your tyres, and it isn't as if GPRO provides a great strategical flexibility to have decent alternatives. But sometimes it is useful, and that doesn't make you a better manager, but a manager that turned out to be available closer to the deadline instead of the Australian one.
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#97 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:39:05
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ November 12th 2014,18:25:12 ) Anything that removes a strategic choice gets a no from me as sometimes you have to do things differently to outfox those who insist on "being difficult to pass".
I pretty much agree
Still I admit I didn´t have the time to read all the ideas written on this subject...I am curious ...if this system should be implemented , do I have the possibility to see my Q1 times before running my Q2 laps??? Or do I have to wait for the qually simulations in order to see both times???
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#98 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 18:53:16
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Quote ( Ognjen Sperlic @ November 12th 2014,18:19:36 ) Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,14:06:17 )
Why not eliminate it though? Why should anyone have that "advantage"?
maybe because you had that advantage many season before , if you change this Q , new managers will be most in disadventage. This is managers online game, managers should change everything till start of race.
I don't see how this would disadvantage new managers over old managers at all. If there is an advantage of qualifying late, which is debatable, then it is the experienced managers that would make the most of such an advantage.
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Mikko's point about grasping an idea of Elite lap times for weather is a valid point, especially if it happened to be a new track.
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#99 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 19:13:50
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ November 12th 2014,18:37:10 ) plan accordingly.
Would be more difficult if you don't know where you will sit on the grid?
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#100 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 19:33:01 (dernière édition (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 19:33:38 par Stuart Foster)
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In RL teams adjust their strategy based on their Q position (its true). GPRO is not F1, but that element becomes completely removed with this idea. I actually support the idea cos its very rare I change my strategy based on anyone else, I just do my own thing which usually means 100CT in some races and 0 in others, so my shoe probably wouldnt be a good fit for comparison to others anyway :) But yeah, only problem I see is for those managers who like to see what others do and then change their approach or make a strategy depending on that.
BTW, about the tyre choices being hidden for pro and above before the first race....it wont actually ever happen cos Stefan pointed out to me once when I queried it that by being able to see others choices means there's more strategic choice for managers...otherwise a hidden choice would be far more likely to result in more similar picks than different ones. Which kind of makes sense, even if I might still prefer the idea myself fo them being hidden. I don't really have any problem with others using this strategy...or the current qualifying system either. :)
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#101 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 20:01:48
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ November 12th 2014,19:13:50 ) Would be more difficult if you don't know where you will sit on the grid?
Frankly? I'm not bothered at all by this at the moment (amateur), but I do acknowled that Elite specially and top managers in Master could exploit this.
But then:
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 12th 2014,18:38:26 ) To be able to run your qualys after most people have done their isn't any strategic boldness. It is time zone advantage, that's all.
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#102 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 20:20:49
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Great idea !!!!
If we dont have live quilyfications because :
-time zone diffrence ,work ,schools and many other reason
Why not implement this suggestion ,which will reduce unfair advantage witch have managers who got time to wait till last moments .But most importent factor is this will bring some extra life to a game -surly that can keep few newcomers for longer,make GPRO fresh and more exiting .
+1
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#103 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 20:30:43
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few more likes on your opening post Rogerio and you can start chosing tracks for the next season calendar
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#104 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 20:37:19
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ November 12th 2014,18:25:12 ) I presume that if this were introduced then the race time would have to be delayed? I arrive at this by assuming that between the end of Q and the beginning of the 'live' race that the Admins do their bit to run the race script?
Ref yesterday's race: I did Q on Thursday night, as always, and chose to run a two stop because those around me that might, cough, be difficult to pass were likely on a 3 stop. That meant that eventually I got some clear air and achieved a better result. Under this proposal it would be impossible to take that strategic decision.
Anything that removes a strategic choice gets a no from me as sometimes you have to do things differently to outfox those who insist on "being difficult to pass".
People who have to do their quali earlier don't have that strategic choice. So, where is their advantage?
Why should you (or anybody) have a strategic choice (advantage) if others can't have?
It should be the same for everybody...
What would you say if end of quali was around 5-6 a.m. for you and you needed to do your quali when only 10-15 people did theirs? You wouldn't have that strategic choice as your main competitors haven't done their quali yet. Your competitors would wait till you did your quali and adjust their strategy to your quali. How would you feel about that?
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#106 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 21:40:40
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The only change to this suggestion would be that I think not even you should know your own qualifying time. It should all be a surprise. You can view your practice times but that's it.
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#107 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 21:46:51
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Quote ( Jack Benson @ November 12th 2014,21:40:40 ) The only change to this suggestion would be that I think not even you should know your own qualifying time. It should all be a surprise. You can view your practice times but that's it.
Then where´s the management part in it?`
Everyone is responsible to try and take advantage of a good Q1 lap , through the risk combinations that are available...as well as compensating for an unfortunate Q1 , in the same way...what are you suggesting ?? no matter the knowledge of the game , we should all play the qually blind folded????
No thanks mate
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#108 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 22:40:11
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#109 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 23:25:07
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ November 12th 2014,18:37:10 ) One can estimate this from past seasons
There are quite many variables between seasons, so not really.
Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ November 12th 2014,18:37:10 ) Never actually bothered to look at current Elite times for this. Again, I can be doing it all wrong.
Could be.
And I'd suspect that many people haven't really considered all the aspects of the suggestion
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#110 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 23:40:05
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It's called an estimate for a reason Mikko....
People still hating this idea because it ruins the advantage they have over people from other countries, shameful really.
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ November 12th 2014,23:25:07 ) And I'd suspect that many people haven't really considered all the aspects of the suggestion
Rather than making a statement without substance, care to explain what everyone is missing?
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#111 Posté (le) 12 Novembre 2014, 23:40:06
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Wheather forcast -is the only reason to cross over -good suggestion lol ????
Ok so lets display best q1 time in elite whithout given away manager Name -so the wheather man can do his magic ,if past season is not enough .
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Quote ( Phil Hartley @ November 12th 2014,23:40:05 ) Rather than making a statement without substance, care to explain what everyone is missing?
This is only the 4th page of this thread, not too much for you to see that there are also downsides pointed out.
But since you can't be bothered, I'll repeat myself in form of a quote;
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ November 11th 2014,20:57:54 ) Whilst that could add something to the ones who can be online at that point of time, it would at the same time take away from those who can not.
At least with current system the people who can't be online just before qually's (but can during the day) can at least check periodically how they have performed (as the times of others drop in). This can be a "fun factor" too, which I would not like to take away from those who can not be online at a set time.
Quote ( Phil Hartley @ November 12th 2014,23:40:05 ) People still hating this idea because it ruins the advantage they have over people from other countries, shameful really.
Even more shameful wanting to completely take away the possibility to see how the qualifying is progressing out from some people. Just because you happen to live in a timezone which allows you to be online at certain time.
Quote ( Lukasz Perdoch @ November 12th 2014,23:40:06 ) Wheather forcast -is the only reason to cross over -good suggestion lol ????
Ok so lets display best q1 time in elite whithout given away manager Name -so the wheather man can do his magic ,if past season is not enough .
There's more to it than just that.
Whilst this suggestion might give something to the people who can be online at set time (certain countries), at the same time it would take away from those people who's timetable won't allow being online.
Easy to thumb up a suggestion which might bring in something to you personally, without considering there may be people who would lose something in the process
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 12th 2014,18:53:16 ) Mikko's point about grasping an idea of Elite lap times for weather is a valid point, especially if it happened to be a new track.
You can make your practice laps (and Qualifys) and estimate the time of the Elite laptimes.
"I am in Master/Pro/Amateur. My driver is running 2/4/6 seconds slower than the 1st of the elite (last 2-3 races). So, the elite LAPTIME will be approximately 1.xx.yyy and the WEATHER can change after lap Z (+1 or -1 laps)."
Is not so difficult to estimate the Elite laptime.
Moreover, we have one new track per season. And nobody will know correctly elite LAPTIME in new tracks until race begins.
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#114 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 00:12:55
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Quote ( Phil Hartley @ November 12th 2014,23:40:05 ) People still hating this idea because it ruins the advantage they have over people from other countries, shameful really.
You´re losing it man... the only advantage comes with the experinces that people have in the game...their own management abilities,the way they take each step forward , the interest that you show and of course the advantage, at some point -sooner or later- , to be part of a strong group of managers that can help you gain even more experience and data about the game..
It´s a strategy and management game , you need time and skills to make it through all it´s levels ...that´s why so many people play it for different reasons...but the key of success doesn´t hide behind this aspect...and I mean quallifying among the last
But not having the possibility to try and run the best possible strategy based on the group´s qually times , that´s like playing for no reason at all...we´ll all be a big happy Rookie-Amateur pussy family , right???
I never said anything against people who wish to play for fun , or more for the sake of this game´s comunity...but there are still so many people wo wish to perform here!! They want to learn the game , get better and better and actually make use of the data gathered ,of the game´s flexible strategical points , weather forecast estimations and so on !!!...even getting better in controlling, as much as possible, the uncertainty moments of the game...
I wonder how many Master and Elite managers actually think the same with you...that being able to qualify among the last managers is the key point in winning a race...I know it´s not fair , u don´t need to repeat that (if I had a solution i would have already shouted)...But I will always be against any attempt to bring this game into superficial phases ...not after all my efforts and time that I spend only to catch up with the best managers...
Mikko said something and he´s right...some of you know so less about this game that it´s not even worth arguing about it...spend less time playing silly games , make a name for yourself in the game and maybe we´ll talk the same language in 10 seasons from now...
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#115 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 02:02:37
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ November 12th 2014,23:56:58 ) Whilst this suggestion might give something to the people who can be online at set time (certain countries), at the same time it would take away from those people who's timetable won't allow being online.
hmm you got this other way around -sugestion will make it even for managers who are able been online and for those who are not -CLEARLY
Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,00:12:55 ) It´s a strategy and management game , you need time and skills to make it through all it´s levels ...that´s why so many people play it for different reasons...but the key of success doesn´t hide behind this aspect...and I mean quallifying among the last
So what is the problem then ??
Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,00:12:55 ) But not having the possibility to try and run the best possible strategy based on the group´s qually times , that´s like playing for no reason at all...we´ll all be a big happy Rookie-Amateur pussy family , right???
Exacly !!! not everybady got oportunity to do so in process of wait till last moment of deadline.
BTW you still be able to run best posible strategy for race just proces of analyzing will change and yes will not be that accurate but defo will be same for EVERYBADY .
p.s
What family you are from ?? lol
Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,00:12:55 ) I wonder how many Master and Elite managers actually think the same with you...that being able to qualify among the last managers is the key point in winning a race...I know it´s not fair , u don´t need to repeat that (if I had a solution i would have already shouted)...But I will always be against any attempt to bring this game into superficial phases ...not after all my efforts and time that I spend only to catch up with the best managers...
Long story short - Going with this logic lets bring in LIVE RACE STRATEGY -If you got time to do qualifications at last minute.com then this will increase your chances even further :)
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#116 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 02:38:50
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don´t struggle mate ;)….pretty soon you´ll get yourself convinced that a square form can actually circle around …this is politics what you´re doing here…go lie to yourself!!!
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#117 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 05:02:09
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Mikko has it spot on as usual. People just aren't considering everything. Just to add some graphical flavor to the game, why should people be forced to change the way they play the game?
If this suggestion is to be implemented, you might as well remove some of the race strategy options from the game (team mate let through, start risk etc).
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#118 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 05:23:52
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Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ November 13th 2014,05:02:09 ) Mikko has it spot on as usual. People just aren't considering everything. Just to add some graphical flavor to the game, why should people be forced to change the way they play the game?
If this suggestion is to be implemented, you might as well remove some of the race strategy options from the game (team mate let through, start risk etc).
So what about those people who cannot be online for 12 to 15 hours prior to the race due to time zone or job commitments?
Why should someone that can wait until the last minute have more information available to them to make those "let teammate through" or "start risk" decisions?
If qualification times are hidden, and all strategy decisions must be made without knowledge of others times.... then everyone is on the same footing. Everyone must make those decisions based on the same information, regardless of whether they can be online with 1 minute left in qualification or not.
The weather con brought up by mikko is a fair point.... but this really only applies to new tracks. Plus, most managers should be able to get a fairly good idea of what elite times are going to be, based simply upon their own times.
If you see other cons to this idea, why arent you putting them out there for discussion? Or is it that you just do not want to lose the comfort you currently have in being able to make last minute strategy decision changes?
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#119 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 07:03:11
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Taking out that strategic part of the game (qualifying last minute) won't probably be seen as god by the admins because they may think that most of the people who actually takes that strategy will feel a bit "empty" and that can make them quit the game, but I think that changing that for the live qualyfing, apart from the fact than takes out that unfair strategic part, will add a very fresh and interesting new one
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#120 Posté (le) 13 Novembre 2014, 07:31:36
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Quote ( Gonzalo Eguia @ November 13th 2014,07:03:11 ) most of the people who actually takes that strategy will feel a bit "empty"
Which doesn't make sense, anyways. It takes more strategic savy to prepare your race without knowing your likely grid position.
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