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Topic: Is this cheating? |
705 replies
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Quote ( Marco Predappio @ September 10th 2011,00:39:49 )
I promoted to pro with a lvl 4 car, driver is important.
In the end, management is what is all about...
I would a lot worried to fall in rookie these wild days down there, uffffffff....
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I’ve been putting some thought into the issue of Practice sessions.
We know some people have tools which eliminate the need for practice laps (giving them a season saving of up to $6.8 mil over someone who does do practice laps) and, yes, I understand that elites etc have sufficient data to apparently negate the need so no need to point that out again.
I’m sufficiently experienced and active enough that I’m sure I could join a team that uses this tool but I choose to stay where I am because my teammates are fun guys but also because I want to get as much enjoyment out of the game as possible. I enjoy using the practice session to get a ‘good’ setup and try different splits/tyres etc but am having to find that I am having to keep my practice laps to an absolute minimum just to try to compete financially with the tool users.
Would race teams in the real world skip a practice session to save money? Seems unlikely to me.
I would like to make a couple of suggestions and see what other people think:
Suggestion 1
Free practice sessions
Probably not realistic as a simulation of the real world but would allow all players the chance to utilise the practice session without losing out to the tools (my nickname for tool users ;)
Suggestion 2
A fixed charge for the practice session for any manager who choses to participate in the ‘race weekend’ regardless of whether they chose to do no laps. 1 lap etc. This would probably be more in keeping with real racing and shouldn’t require much tweaking of the game code I doubt.
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How about introducing a secondary advantage to doing practise sessions: Either a small test points gain, or a very small increase in driver attributes (experience and/or TI maybe), or something else along those lines. Perhaps a temporary CCP boost for that race only
That way all the work people have put into predicting setups would still give them the advantage of a strategic choice of saving $400,000 when finances are tight but would have to be weighed against losing out on a little wear-free testing, instead of the no-brainer decision it is now
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6 and 7 mil is a significant ammount of advantage gained indeed for those 'black market ad-ons'.
Sugestion 2 is sound and deals the money aspect of this 'problem'. from the root.
Edit: A temporary (race only) experiance/motivation gain, is also sound.
More practice= more confidence, more experiance, more race weekend competence. (regardless of tool or not)
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 20th 2012,08:59:26 ) How about introducing a secondary advantage to doing practise sessions: Either a small test points gain, or a very small increase in driver attributes (experience and/or TI maybe), or something else along those lines. Perhaps a temporary CCP boost for that race only
That way all the work people have put into predicting setups would still give them the advantage of a strategic choice of saving $400,000 when finances are tight but would have to be weighed against losing out on a little wear-free testing, instead of the no-brainer decision it is now
if this would give you TI I won't do ANY practice laps... TI is just taking OA and is not useful...
Bad idea for me, it's 8 PL you may do less you can't do more... Many of us have correct setup without any PL so why should we do 8 of them? And why should this give benefits to people who do 8?
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,08:36:28 ) We know some people have tools which eliminate the need for practice laps
Would you trust a tool that much that you won`t do any practice laps at all? I wouldn`t.
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That sounds nice Roland..
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Quote ( Marius Ruţa @ September 20th 2012,09:07:56 ) Would you trust a tool that much that you won`t do any practice laps at all? I wouldn`t.
This. Tools is not advantage to users of them. This is their problem
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All that's true, but if all you need to do is 1 practice lap to confirm it's acceptability as opposed to 8, that's still a good $6m+ saving a season.
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Quote ( Marius Ruţa @ September 20th 2012,09:07:56 ) Would you trust a tool that much that you won`t do any practice laps at all? I wouldn`t.
I have been told by an 'inside source' that one such tool is guaranteed to get within 4 pts of a 'certain' setup, so yes, i would trust this tool but i would choose not to use it out of principal.
Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 20th 2012,08:59:26 ) How about introducing a secondary advantage to doing practise sessions: Either a small test points gain, or a very small increase in driver attributes (experience and/or TI maybe), or something else along those lines. Perhaps a temporary CCP boost for that race only
All sound good except TI for reasons mentioned by Michal.
Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 20th 2012,09:06:20 ) why should this give benefits to people who do 8?
You don't think a racing team would benefit from running a practice session against a team who didn't bother showing up? ;)
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:15:16 ) You don't think a racing team would benefit from running a practice session against a team who didn't bother showing up? ;)
Practice laps in real life too are to measure Fuel, Tyre Consumption and setup of the car. If a team has correct data, and can setup, fuel and choose strategy without doing any practice laps, just good for them...
Same here, if you do have setup fuel and tyres without testing, it's just your advantage...
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Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 20th 2012,09:06:20 ) Many of us have correct setup without any PL
Tracks change behaiviour acording to conditions. Sometimes even within 3 minutes, a track can change behaiviour and thus require a whole different set up.
Use your 'set up' another day, and you are finished.
I give you that you can have a 50% advantage if you 'know the track'. no more.
edit:(and then again, the driver needs to get out there and confirm/adjust.)
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Quote ( Ivan Salfa @ September 20th 2012,09:23:50 ) Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 20th 2012,09:06:20 )
Many of us have correct setup without any PL
Tracks change behaiviour acording to conditions. Sometimes even within 3 minutes, a track can change behaiviour and thus require a whole different set up.
Use your 'set up' another day, and you are finished.
I give you that you can have a 50% advantage if you 'know the track'. no more.
I change my setup here too, no matter what conditions on the track are...
BTW - Seems I have Haters L0L ;D
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:15:16 ) i would trust this tool but i would choose not to use it out of principal.
And that is your choice. This is still a management game and if you feel that your "principle" way is good for you, then by all means stop worrying about what other teams may or may not have and use.
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Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 20th 2012,09:25:13 ) Seems I have Haters
No haters. Just discussing. Diferent oppinions exist even between the best of friends ;)
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Quote ( Ivan Salfa @ September 20th 2012,09:26:55 ) Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 20th 2012,09:25:13 )
Seems I have Haters
No haters. Just discussing. Diferent oppinions exist even between the best of friends ;)
I mean someone is Thubing Down all my posts ;) Not our gentleman discussion ;)
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I have been asked if i feel the game has been hacked to create these tools. Just wanted to confirm that i do not and that i know the tools have been created using seasons of race data.
There could still be advantages of using the tool even without the financial one such as more free laps to test splits etc so those who have been in the game longer and have more data could still gain some benefit.
I would just like not to be punished for wanting to do things properly.
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Going to race having done 1 practice lap is just apsurd, or you are Minardi :)
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Quote ( Ivan Salfa @ September 20th 2012,09:35:26 ) Going to race having done 1 practice lap is just apsurd, or you are Minardi :)
I may not do any of them but usually I do 1 for being sure, and than 2-3 more to make wingsplit better...
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Quote ( Ivan Salfa @ September 20th 2012,09:35:26 ) Going to race having done 1 practice lap is just apsurd, or you are Minardi :)
well, real F1 teams already know their setup when entering a new track, so no teams would probably make more than just 3-4 practise laps if they didn't get info from tyres, etc....and we don't get that in gpro =)
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:35:23 ) I would just like not to be punished for wanting to do things properly.
Having tools is proper. If you choose to use them or not is your choice.
Game has 'evolved' and set up tech is available as it is normal.
The point you made initialy is sound though to deal with the economic injustice this brings. (No official GPRO practice tool is available)
A one time fee for entering practice (1 lap or 8) deals with it.
Race only driver gains gained by practice laps was also a good idea.
Edit: A briliant idea actualy!!
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Quote ( Janne Väänänen @ September 20th 2012,09:38:12 ) so no teams would probably make more than just 3-4 practise laps
Show me a serious team, in the entire open-cocpit world, that has done that and won.
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Quote ( Ivan Salfa @ September 20th 2012,09:45:50 ) Having tools is proper. If you hoose to use them or not is your choice.
I'm not objecting to the fact that this tool exists or that anyone who has been in the game sufficiently long enough has a right to use it.
The problem is people in rookie are using it (new players) and are gaining an advantage over other new players.
I'm currently in the mentoring program to help encourage new players to stay and enjoy this great game but i think unfairness issues like this will only hurt the game in the long run.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:49:47 ) The problem is people in rookie are using it (new players)
And How do you know that they are doing it sucessfully ? Maybe they think its their perfect setup , but it most probably might not be the perfect setup ;)
Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:49:47 ) i think unfairness issues like this will only hurt the game in the long run.
How is this unfair ? You mean to say those who have worked hard to get data over a span of 8-10 seasons and have deviced a tool to help them , it becomes unfair ?
How about you try to device such a tool that will help you ;) ?
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Track conditions and car behaiviour is never the same. Even if you have 32 seasons of data. You can get close, but never the same.
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Quote ( Sujay Warrier @ September 20th 2012,09:53:19 ) You mean to say those who have worked hard to get data over a span of 8-10 seasons and have deviced a tool to help
Depends on how it helps. If it gives them more laps free for other testing then that's fine but to give them a 7 mil advantage? That seems very excessive and gives them a huge advantage.
Quote ( Sujay Warrier @ September 20th 2012,09:53:19 ) How about you try to device such a tool that will help you ;) ?
I would use one if i absolutely had to in order to compete but i certainly wouldn't be happy about it.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:15:16 ) i would trust this tool but i would choose not to use it out of principal.
Principal? Ha! This is not about CO2 Emmissions! Not using this tool will not save the planet :D
The tools in use are the product of experience, vigilant data collection and sound maths. Why should experienced magangers not take advantage of this hard earned knowlege?
Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:49:47 ) The problem is people in rookie are using it (new players) and are gaining an advantage over other new players.
And if they want to pass it on to Rookies that's up to them. Who are you to try to stop them?
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:59:17 ) a 7 mil advantage
I think this is the only problem here. Thats what you are saying anyway.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:59:17 ) Depends on how it helps. Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 20th 2012,09:59:17 ) but to give them a 7 mil advantage? That seems very excessive and gives them a huge advantage.
7 million might be excessive and might not please you , but is it not possible that the manager saving 7 mill on this might be overspending on some other factor ?
Even i know some guys who have done just 1 practice lap for the past 2 seasons and is earning loads of money . That does not mean it will guarantee to help him in the later stages of the game ;)
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Quote ( Sujay Warrier @ September 20th 2012,10:03:49 ) 7 million might be excessive and might not please you , but is it not possible that the manager saving 7 mill on this might be overspending on some other factor ?
Im trying hard to understand how your logic works
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