Quote ( Janne Väänänen @ June 25th 2017,20:52:05 )
Lewis clearly braked and slowed down in a manner that was dangerous but I don't think it was intentional or brake testing from his part, he probably just didn't account for that Vettel would be so close behind, so giving him the benefit of doubt is fair enough imo
Vettel obvs suffers from Schumacher syndrome of some sort and should have been penalized harder
ps. best track in F1 :)
Bensons twitter post<:
"Stewards examined Hamilton's car data in Vettel incident. Did not brake or lift off completely. Maintained more or less constant speed and behaved the same at that re-start at that point on the track as he did at the other two re-starts" 1/2
"And behaved the same at that re-start at that point on the track as he did at the other two re-starts. Source: FIA" 2/2
You can LOL at FIA as long as you want ... btw, I coudn't care less about both crybabies. Hamilton, overrated, artificialy pumped driver by british media, Vettel, who has a history of crashing from behind during safety car. I'm just puzzled how come he did't get a black flag for hitting Hamilton 2nd time ???
Quote ( António Pereira @ June 25th 2017,20:54:37 )
I can understand Lewis and I can understand Vettel
this isn't for kids.
Prost (more political than the others, meaning, he had the support from the F1 leader at the time), but he was also no Angel... Senna wasn't an Angel, Schumacher also, Lewis too... Vettel the same, Alonso the same. They are/were NO Angels on track
They are all done from the same material, they want to win at all costs, and all of them did "stupid" things on track...
but in the other hand, if it wasn't for them, you will not have any Charismatic Guys to follow.
DO you want to follow guys like MASSA, like DAMON HILL, like, BUTTON!?!?!?!?! Do you want GEntlemans on the wheel?
ok follow them, but then you'll have a DULL Competition with ZERO charisma and enthusiasm.
this kind of "sh*t" turns the attention to F1, and makes us luv or hate guys. That's the way it has to be!
I'm not an agitator but I like to see "blood" Foootball has yellow and red cards and those are given all the time and it is part of sport and everyone loves it... You need to have some hard fights also in f1 or it will be boring like golf.
Banging wheels and touching each other while fighting for a position can, at times, be nothing more than "part of the sport".
Banging wheels deliberately when not even in racing circumstances however, has nothing to do with sport at all and should be penalized in the heaviest possible way.
It's like giving an elbow in football, which is always a red card even if it was not hard and did not cause injury.
Quote ( António Pereira @ June 25th 2017,21:08:34 )
Quote ( Damir Hictaler @ June 25th 2017,20:58:22 )
Where is this "clearly" braking ???
it happened. its visible
Quote ( Damir Hictaler @ June 25th 2017,20:58:22 )
aintained more or less constant speed
luv this. "mantained MORE OR LESS"
lol
Visable? In what way is your TV different to everyone else? Brake testing (which is what Vettel claimed Hamilton did) is suddenly slowing down to scare the driver behind. The FIA have the data and say that he didn't do that.
Vettel deliberately bangs wheels like a spoil kid at a kart track, and then he tries to claim that he didn't do that at all, when it's clear for anyone to see that he did. Why should anyone believe a word he says?
As a Belgian, can anyone explain pitstrategy for Vandoorne today? Coming in after like 6 laps - miss SC-pitstop opportunity as only one? - and needing a 2nd regular stop? Being one of the few with no mistakes or issues today je always should have been 8th or 9th. Not the first time they mess up for him if you look closely. And with (far) interior material than Alonso.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear that the early stop was just to get him out of Alonso's way, to prevent them both losing time fighting each other while Vandoorne was on the harder compound. It hurt him a lot though because indeed, it took away the safety car pit opportunity.
He then fought back and was ahead of both Saubers after the red flag, and I was also very surprised to see him pitting again around lap 32 or so. I thought there must have been a technical issue because everyone got fresh tyres during the red flag (changing tyres is allowed). But we didn't get to see it and nobody talked about it during or after the race. Cost him a sure P10.
But... what makes you think his material is inferior to Alonso's?
Edit: McLaren's website says Stoffel pitted again after the red flag because he flat-spotted a tyre. Vandoorne also claims the red flag effectively cost him as he was on option tyres and the guys around him were all on the slower prime after their pit stop during the safety car. Thanks to the red flag, they could all revert to options.
Quote ( Damir Hictaler @ June 25th 2017,20:58:22 )
Quote ( Janne Väänänen @ June 25th 2017,20:52:05 )
Lewis clearly braked and slowed down in a manner that was dangerous but I don't think it was intentional or brake testing from his part, he probably just didn't account for that Vettel would be so close behind, so giving him the benefit of doubt is fair enough imo
Vettel obvs suffers from Schumacher syndrome of some sort and should have been penalized harder
ps. best track in F1 :)
Bensons twitter post<:
"Stewards examined Hamilton's car data in Vettel incident. Did not brake or lift off completely. Maintained more or less constant speed and behaved the same at that re-start at that point on the track as he did at the other two re-starts" 1/2
"And behaved the same at that re-start at that point on the track as he did at the other two re-starts. Source: FIA" 2/2
Where is this "clearly" braking ???
Its on the video which has the telemetry overlay which i cba to link by phone. But Lewis does brake for the corner reducing his speed from 70 to 50.
What FIA or Whiting says is irrelevant, by this point you ought to have realized they are an absolute bunch of moronic idiots withzero credibility (as evidenced by that they stated they wouldnt have even penalized vettel cos he was in title fight, if Lewis headrest didnt come off)
Hamilton brakes at the entrance of the corner, brakes at the apex of the corner. He then starts accelerating at the exit (visible by the jump 51 kph -> 55 kph) and stops it again.
Sorry, but that FIA ruling is stupid. That very short acceleration is enough to give a driver behind a wrong signal.
The stewards have said they've looked at the data and Lewis did not brake or lift off and behaved the same at that restart as he did the other 2 restarts.
Do you believe everything you're told? Take a look:
2min 55sec mark in this video, but maybe start watching a bit earlier. Hamilton braked coming into the corner, then applied the throttle briefly as he started to turn before braking again as he was going through the corner. He didn't come off the brake until after the corner and he then didn't pick up the throttle.
Vettel should've avoided the contact as the following car, but there is no doubt that Hamilton's actions contributed to the initial contact and he should've been handed a penalty for it too. But what happened afterward is a totally separate issue. Vettel behaved badly, to say the least. That's basically road rage.
Vettel needid a bigger penalty. Because 10 sec for wat he did? Ok so if vettel is having a penalty and he don't want Hamilton to win he will crash in to him and Hamilton race is over. It is a bigg mistake to give only 10 sec for this. Very dangerous amd always complain wat other drivers are doing but i have never seen a driver do this wat Vettel is doing.
Hamilton brakes at the entrance of the corner, brakes at the apex of the corner. He then starts accelerating at the exit (visible by the jump 51 kph -> 55 kph) and stops it again.
Sorry, but that FIA ruling is stupid. That very short acceleration is enough to give a driver behind a wrong signal.
He accelerates from 51 to 55. Wow. What a rocket, of course Vettel was right to floor it as soon as he saw this.
An acceleration from 51 to 55, is that even visible to the naked eye?
Also, it would be interesting to have the same images from Hamilton from the laps before, and from the other restarts. Only then can you say whether it was a strange thing or not. In any case, going from 51 to 55 to 53 are such small fluctuations in speed, you can only conclude that it is Vettel who went on the throttle while he should not have, and that even the first contact was Vettel's fault. It is the lead car who dictates the pace, Vettel should pay attention.
After the apex, throttle position does not change and brakes are not applied until after impact.
So there is a slight increase in speed, difference of turning wheel vs straight? Throttle position change so slight the telemetry can't pick it up? I don't know.
Pretty evident there is no obvious attempt at a brake check or unsafe act. Hamilton can be accused of "not accelerating after a turn" if you wish. You can say that it was not a wise decision to stay so slow after a corner, as it would bunch the field up. But you cannot say he performed an unsafe act there.
More likely a case here: Vettel accelerated hard after the corner in an attempt to warm the rear tires, as is very common under a safety car. You cannot blame Hamilton for that, Vettel made a mistake.
No, what he did on the apex had everything to do with it. Vettel started braking hard on the apex after getting ready to accelerate, as normal, but wasn't enough due to the already braking by Hamilton on the apex. How you could say otherwise is beyond me.
But none of that was penalty-worthy, Hamilton was wrong to brake on the apex but Vettel shouldn't have been so complacent about getting ready to accelerate when still under a safety car period.
Vettel started braking hard on the apex after getting ready to accelerate, as normal, but wasn't enough due to the already braking by Hamilton on the apex. How you could say otherwise is beyond me.
Telemtry of Vettels car needs to be shown to really validate any of this.
No, the collision happened when Hamilton was already on the outside kerb at the exit of the corner. He'd been going at a constant speed for long enough at that time. What Vettel did is like hitting a car in the rear because you see a green light and accelerate, while missing the fact that the car in front is still standing still...
It is Hamilton's right to dictate the pace, and if he does not accelerate, neither should Vettel. Totally his fault.
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ June 26th 2017,15:09:10 )
No, the collision happened when Hamilton was already on the outside kerb at the exit of the corner. He'd been going at a constant speed for long enough at that time. What Vettel did is like hitting a car in the rear because you see a green light and accelerate, while missing the fact that the car in front is still standing still...
It is Hamilton's right to dictate the pace, and if he does not accelerate, neither should Vettel. Totally his fault.
Hamilton braked much more for the corner than did Vettel. The different in speed at apex was about 15 KPH.
Vettel gave some slight throttle right at the apex (while he was already traveling 15kph faster than was hamilton) and immediately got on the brakes, but it was not enough.
That slight throttle on the apex is some sort of anti-stall I think, as he was below 4000 rpm. I think it may have been the engine trying to keep itself alive.
Note that Hamilton took the corner in 1st gear, Vettel in 2nd. Means Vettel was not prepared to take it as slowly as Hamilton did.
I do agree that the situation is difficult to judge.
It's very difficult to judge, because technically Hamilton didn't do anything wrong, and Vettel should know that he will slow down at some point because of the safety car going in, so shouldn't be naive to think he would do it down the track (especially since he is notorious for backing the pack up dramatically), but it still may have been a bad place to start doing it, on the apex of a corner. What happened after though is of course inexcusable, and a bit of justice for a great restart by Hamilton.
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ June 26th 2017,15:26:39 )
That slight throttle on the apex is some sort of anti-stall I think, as he was below 4000 rpm. I think it may have been the engine trying to keep itself alive.
Note that Hamilton took the corner in 1st gear, Vettel in 2nd. Means Vettel was not prepared to take it as slowly as Hamilton did.
I do agree that the situation is difficult to judge.
Can't really put a fault in either side.
Hamilton: Poor decision to go so slowly (rebuttal: He needs to create space between safety car) Vettel: Should not have followed so close, pay closer attention to car in front (rebuttal: Need to stay as close as possible for restart)
Racing incident there. People are making far too much of it.
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ June 26th 2017,15:30:01 )
Hamilton: Poor decision to go so slowly
I`d say go so slowly at this part of the track. It`s pretty common to go very slow, just seemed like a very unusual place to do so, even to me looking from the side. Pretty much everyone I saw slow down before restart did it in a much more predictable way.
But still, I`d penalise both. Vettel more harshly.
Pretty much everyone I saw slow down before restart did it in a much more predictable way.
Of course they did, by definition. Hamilton was the lead car, everyone else wasn't. Hamilton's job is to dictate the pace. Everyone else's job is to follow Hamilton and all the other cars ahead of them. Thing is everyone in the pack can see what the guy 3 cars ahead is doing, and anticipate on that. That makes the movements in the pack more predictable than those of the lead car.
It's the same reason why P2 is the most vulnerable spot to be in at a restart (and the most commonly overtaken one).
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