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Topic: Driver Energy |
2267 replies
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It is so much theories...
Wait just for one or two races and all about energy can be slightly different in real. If it's true that energy will be useful against high risk managers, I think that's great.
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Increase OBP?
I think not.
Why?
Well true OBP relies on just one / two / three races at full CT yes?
With the remainder at a much reduced CT (regularly 0)
So for elite, where 100CT is supposedly going to be fine - no change to the OBP strategy (but then again, not too manay elites continue to retain season after season using OBP).
So lower down - let's assume the 'max' CT usable is now 50 (both for regular frontrunners and the OBP guys), and that the OBP's are pushing 3 times. (THe exact numbers are actually irrelevant however)
OBP - 14 races at 0CT - exactly the same as before - no change to their money. 3 races at 50CT instead of 100CT. So this now saves them money on parts - maybe 2m per race? So a total saving over the season of 6m - and the same results as before
Frontrunners - running the 50CT each race (instead of 100CT as is normal in pro / master) - so now EVERY race, they are saving that same 2m as the OBP guys - so over the season they save 34m.
Now I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer to save 34m than 6m - to get the same results as it would have been with everyone doing 100CT.
So now with 28m cash gained over the OBP guys, the front runners will be able to run higher level parts, do even more testing, improve facilities more etc.
Therefore I'd suggest that (on initial impressions) while OBP can and will still work, it is now (long term) even less viable than before.
But once again - until we see what actually happens in races this is all speculation - we need to see whether people still run 100CT despite the warnings, what happens when/if their energy gets to 0 etc, how the energy regen works between races, how well the spa resort works.
And of course whether people CAN run the 'group max' CT all the time - if they can't then yeah, the balance alters back towards the OBP (but still no further than it has been previously)
One question that I haven't seen answered is that we have a 3 day and a 4 day gap between races - does that mean that we get more energy regen before the Tuesday race than the Friday? (4 days worth rather than 3)
Or is the rate of regen different for the two (if Tues to Fri rate is x, is the Fri to Tues rate 75%*x?) so that the total for each race is the same?
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I am glad I wasn't the only one who thought OBP might become harder not easier! Good summary Robin
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Quote ( Frank Maasdijk @ September 11th 2016,15:06:45 ) If you are going for promotion you need to score the points and you have little to no option to play around with the new feature. If you just want to retain your league you can play around and experiment quite a bit.
Given the vastness of gpro, this is a somewhat minor change. I'd be so bold and claim that there isn't gonna be too much need for "playing around and experimenting".
Most people should have a fairly good grasp on it after just one race.
IF you don't, and claim that your promotion is compromised by this, then I'd say you are not worthy of promotion
This isn't like when tyre brands were introduced and clicking the wrong button actually, really screwed you over. This is a change which effects everyone equally.
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 11th 2016,15:23:56 ) What's the difference? If they'd made the announcement a season in advance, people still wouldn't have been able to experiment and learn about it until it was implemented.
Are you saying managers would deliberately not plan to promote a season a change was being implemented
The difference is about PR. It's not so much about changing plans or such, it's about giving the audience the chance to prepare themselves mentally for the upcoming change.
The problem there is: Announcing such change at season reset is kind'a sudden, but announcing it one season in advance would be counterproductive as it would give too much time to this kind of thread to go round-and-round multiple circles.
Would an announcement at some point during the season be appropriate ? possibly
But would it change the reaction of people at all, maybe or maybe not.
Quote ( Christoph Seifriedsberger @ September 11th 2016,22:16:35 ) At first I was quite surprised and a bit scared, but after thinking about it and having a couple of theories I actually believe
That's what I'm talking about :)
IF people were given "heads-up" a few races before, maybe the reactions would be a bit different, since it might not seem so daunting to have the change made to next race (suddenly)
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Quote ( Robin Goodey @ September 12th 2016,09:15:01 ) So lower down - let's assume the 'max' CT usable is now 50 (both for regular frontrunners and the OBP guys)
But OBP'ers can use the whole 100% energy, while those who are pushing all the time can use on average only what they gain between races. So depensing on how fast the gaining is, OBP'ers may be able to use higher risks.
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ September 12th 2016,11:45:43 ) But OBP'ers can use the whole 100% energy, while those who are pushing all the time can use on average only what they gain between races. So depensing on how fast the gaining is, OBP'ers may be able to use higher risks.
It's all conjecture at the moment though Jukka, some good points for discussion but no one knows for certain. We'll all find out soon enough though and it's nice having something new to get stuck into this season.
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Quote ( Robin Goodey @ September 12th 2016,09:15:01 ) So lower down - let's assume the 'max' CT usable is now 50 (both for regular frontrunners and the OBP guys), and that the OBP's are pushing 3 times. (THe exact numbers are actually irrelevant however)
Why would this be an assumption?
Logically if the front runners are using 50CT and 50CT is what you can push _when pushing all season_ then that would possibly be with 50-75% energy, depending on teh energy recovery rates, but let's say it's 75% energy.
An OBP guy saves up to having 100% Energy in his 3 races so he can go 33% higher in CT for those 3 races, or 67-70CT instead.
That there's less money gain for the OBP I agree with though, logically.
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Well like the assumption, but all drivers energy going to be different, on using and regaining energy it seems like, so everyone going to have to learn how hard they can push them and pretty sure it also going to have an effect with each track we go to too. So gl and let the best strategist win!!!
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Nothing stopping anyone deliberately using too high risks to maintain CT all race, but then finishing the race with 0ct. Could well be a valid strategy in some cases :)
And the energy used will surely not be the same from driver to driver anyway.
So many new factors. OBP still a shit long term strategy so don't know why people get their knickers in a twist over it instead of just letting people manage how they want while you manage better and not need to worry about OBP'ers :)
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Now I hope amateur and pro managers calm down and use risks in proportion over a season. The more I think about this, the more I see it as good for the game. This is a healthy twist in the game which will encourage the thinkers. What a great idea.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 12th 2016,13:18:01 ) So many new factors. OBP still a shit long term strategy so don't know why people get their knickers in a twist over it instead of just letting people manage how they want while you manage better and not need to worry about OBP'ers :)
Because, as I previously said, 2/28 managers with Contis last season demoted from Master, while 41/123 (give or take; I did a very quick counting) Dunnos users demoted. That's 7% vs. 33% (and it should have been 0% for Contis; I have no clue why those 2 weren't able to score). I think we both agree OBP is still a shit long term strategy, yet picking Contis is a get out of jail card (just to be back in jail sooner or later) while jeopardizing the retention odds of many players.
Quote ( Robin Goodey @ September 12th 2016,09:15:01 )
Increase OBP?
I think not.
Why? ...
Because, as Jukka properly pointed out, an OBP can use the maximum allowed energy in any OBP race, given his driver will be properly rested. A manager who is consistently racing the whole season can't put higher than average CT during the season. Just a simple example: your driver recovers 60% energy between 2 races. An optimal consistent strategy is to drop the energy all the way to 0% in the first races and then use the CT risk that depletes the energy 60% of the total, starting with 60% every remaining race. That's the optimal non-wasting energy season. With OBP your driver will be at 100% energy before every OBP race, so he can put the CT that uses the whole 100% bar while the consistent manager is capped at 60%.
But, I repeat, this is academical. OBP was already extremely easy. There is no reason in hell not to be able to retain with Contis in either Pro or Master. This addition makes it easier, but it was already a huge piece of cake nonetheless.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 12th 2016,14:34:38 ) Because, as Jukka properly pointed out, an OBP can use the maximum allowed energy in any OBP race, given his driver will be properly rested.
Energy for sure. But I'm not sure about the risks :-)
I believe that admins have thought about it and 100% energy will allow to run a full distance with no more than 40-50 CT in AMA, 60-70 CT in PRO and 80-90 CT in master (or similar). A 100CT OBP shouldn't be possible in neither class.
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Cool this driver energy!
al 9:00 CET was 91%......now is 96% ....
"damdidoodade" :)
I think with 100 CT, my driver will lose 100% in 50 laps......but will see....very interesting
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thinking about OBP's smoking out races, then replacing everything and pushing 100% for a couple of races with zero driver motivation still makes me chuckle:) What a game a!!
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 12th 2016,14:34:38 ) Just a simple example: your driver recovers 60% energy between 2 races. An optimal consistent strategy is to drop the energy all the way to 0% in the first races and then use the CT risk that depletes the energy 60% of the total, starting with 60% every remaining race. That's the optimal non-wasting energy season
But what about 20% in race 2, 100% in race 3, 20% in race 4, etc...? I'd like to call this the 'Nine Big Push' strategy :)
Personally I like that OBP is an option, and I suspect that the percentage of people using it is some kind of evolutionarily stable state dictated mostly by the number of promotion/relegation spots and not much else, so it doesn't get 'easier' or 'harder'. It hurts your long term strategy but if you have little long term prospects it's appealing. Tweaks to pace mechanics don't change that equation. And clearly everyone can't use it, if 7% of Master Conti users failed at it last season that's probably an indication of saturation. If you look back before Contis were added similar numbers of people were doing it, they're just a bit harder to identify
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 12th 2016,15:12:02 ) Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 12th 2016,14:34:38 )
Just a simple example: your driver recovers 60% energy between 2 races. An optimal consistent strategy is to drop the energy all the way to 0% in the first races and then use the CT risk that depletes the energy 60% of the total, starting with 60% every remaining race. That's the optimal non-wasting energy season
But what about 20% in race 2, 100% in race 3, 20% in race 4, etc...? I'd like to call this the 'Nine Big Push' strategy :)
Personally I like that OBP is an option, and I suspect that the percentage of people using it is some kind of evolutionarily stable state dictated mostly by the number of promotion/relegation spots and not much else, so it doesn't get 'easier' or 'harder'. It hurts your long term strategy but if you have little long term prospects it's appealing. Tweaks to pace mechanics don't change that equation. And clearly everyone can't use it, if 7% of Master Conti users failed at it last season that's probably an indication of saturation. If you look back before Contis were added similar numbers of people were doing it, they're just a bit harder to identify
I would think you would need to see how much energy you burn in a race at 0 before you could figure out what strategy you could take in my opinion.
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Guys firstly i very seldom make forum posts, so this is not just idle chit chat but a very serious concern from a "paying" player.
Secondly i have not read all the comments on this post, honestly since none of us actually know what is going to happen until it does we are all just speculating here.
BUT
Like you all, i have actually chatted about this away from the forum and it came to light that should you maybe run your risks too high, your driver may not recover all his energy before the following race.
I really hope the admins read this, as i said its not often i post and have my say on the forums, but i am not a casual player, i do pay to play and this is my immediate concern regarding this and i hope you give it some thought as im sure its not just myself who thinks this way:
if i have to start races at 0ct purely due to energy not being sufficient from the previous race , i wont "pay to play" anymore.Then this game wont get any more revenue from me, and if it reaches a point that it affects me promoting this season i shall probably quit altogether. The developers should be encouraging you to play, not penalising.
I know someone here will say its the same for everyone etc etc, but thats not the point in this case.
The point is that it is a game and im here to have fun, if its not fun there is no point in playing anymore and i definitely wont be giving money away to an organisation i dont have to when im not getting out the enjoyment to keep me here in the first place.....
sorry just to add to that:
I fully understand if i run risks too high and slow down towards the end of the race and thus have to lower my risks, that i have no issue with.
I have a serious issue if i have to start a race with 0ct due to me "racing" the previous one.
that is totally an unrealistic rule that is just totally absurd to me in any form of motor sport.
Since when do any racing drivers in any form of motor sport say to their boss ,"sorry i cant race this next race as im still tired from the previous one"?
having to do that in the game will have a snowball affect:
1: you will lose sponsors due to extra warnings for not finnishing where they expect you too
2: you cant do a realistic season plan
3: losing sponsors will result in loss of income etc etc
that is just crazy , the game will be just chaos, and any form of planning or enjoyment will be lost.
No enjoyment = no playing
Its a game and im here to have fun, maybe that has now got lost along the way.....
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agree, Stephen. One OBP, secong OBP, third OBP...
What if in F1 Mercedes, RB, Ferrari, etc. will push only on half of their potencial because they are worrying of their power and both Haas are pushing? Haas can win this race.
I don't know yet, maybe in Elite and Masters it will be possible to use CT-90...100 anytime. But looks like not.
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My opinion.
It is designed to limit the use of risk, but actually found it unnecessary.
The manager it pays to walk with high risks, as says the high wear parts. He will pay the price at the end of the season, seeing your finances down.
They want to invent, but not modernize> What will happen? more managers leave the GPRO.
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Quote ( Stephen Cakebread @ September 12th 2016,15:34:24 ) if i have to start races at 0ct purely due to energy not being sufficient from the previous race , i wont "pay to play" anymore Sorry, but i did "lol" at that.
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Quote ( Stephen Cakebread @ September 12th 2016,15:34:24 ) Its a game and im here to have fun, maybe that has now got lost along the way.....
Sorry, I completely disagree. of course you can still race and have fun. this is a change for all, so, all will be racing with more realistic risks. I really don't see it effecting anyone sensible in a negative way, it is just an additional strategy variable to consider.
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Quote ( Stephen Cakebread @ September 12th 2016,15:34:24 ) I have a serious issue if i have to start a race with 0ct due to me "racing" the previous one.
that is totally an unrealistic rule that is just totally absurd to me in any form of motor sport.
So you expect the energy to be fully reloaded between races. I would expect something completely different. Additional risk management and planning that will bring more excitement to the game.
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I can fully understand a driver becoming fatigued during a race, but not being able to race in the following one as a result is honestly just silly.
That would have to be a driver who wouldnt fit in the cockpit in the first place and thus not be able to race in any event.
hmm smells fishy to me!
Bloody hell i used 10 energy just typing this!
Now im too tired to do race setup, dam it will have to wait till friday when i have enough energy again....
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I will run all races 100CT and let you know how bad it is from the worst possible level. And with a really old driver too.
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@Stephen.
From all accounts that have brought testimony to Energy recovery between races it is stipulated that Energy is rising per time between races so even IF your driver is down to 0% Energy AFTER the race in the next 3 days he will recover enough of that energy to be able to race fully in the next race, with any CT, but might drop to 0% Energy during the race and thus slow down at that point too.
So what needs to be learned is at what CT levels you can run every race without dropping pace.
Ex, without exact numbers, just to give an indication:
Race 1: 100% Energy before race, use 50CT during race, have 25% Energy left directly after race. 3 days pass (68 hours) with gaining 1% Energy every 2 hours (guessing a rate here) so by the time the next race starts driver has 59% Energy.
Race 2: 47% Energy after Q but before Race and counting on 1.5% Energy per CT used spent (different tracks could of course have different Energy "consumption") setting 20 CT (for a few % Energy left after race. Energy left directly after race 2%. 4 days pass (92 hours) getting up to 48% before next Q and race.
Race 3: 36% Energy left after Q, deciding on 15CT being "the optimal" and going for that.
Something like that, so the driver will always be able to race in the next race, the question is how hard he will be able to push.
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I honestly can't believe all the moaning about this without even seeing how it works .
I see it as a positive change and look forward to seeing how it works out :)
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Without reading the whole forum...is energy a pre-existing trait that was just hidden previously? Is it just being introduced as feedback for something that was always there?
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Quote ( Jon Garay @ September 12th 2016,16:59:00 ) Without reading the whole forum...is energy a pre-existing trait that was just hidden previously? Is it just being introduced as feedback for something that was always there?
Yes, something similar did exist as a background race engine feature, but it had no continuity between races and was much more simple.
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