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Topic: [F1] 2019 Chinese Grand Prix (1000th race) |
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#31 posted Apr 14th 2019, 07:42:11
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Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ April 13th 2019,13:14:38 ) Was Vettel correct to overtake Verstappen in qualifying or was it poor etiquette?
Discuss: I would say, yes, Vettel was correct to overtake Verstappen and Verstappen was right to be angry about it. The etiquette works when no one is on the verge of missing the time limit, but no-one can be expected to give up his quali lap 'just' for etiquette.
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#32 posted Apr 14th 2019, 08:09:29
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I think it's a bit of both! But if the time is running out, then the etiquette is not that important anymore. Red Bull has been sleeping and I think there should be the main blame!
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#33 posted Apr 14th 2019, 08:33:25
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ferrari again solidifying my reasons for disliking them
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#35 posted Apr 14th 2019, 08:56:05
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Screwed Leclerc totally , so that Vettel does not get shown up :/
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#36 posted Apr 14th 2019, 09:16:26
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Wow, isn't that a perfect double stop, bold play :o
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#37 posted Apr 14th 2019, 09:47:31
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#38 posted Apr 14th 2019, 09:51:52 (last edited Apr 14th 2019, 09:54:08 by Lyee Chong)
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ April 14th 2019,09:47:31 ) What a boring race! I don't agree, as I haven't finish watching the full race. Just now I slept through the second half of the race :)
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Anyone notice that the posters they had up all over the track accurately predicted the top 5?
edit: meh forgot that the internet channel i was watching was mirrored (flipped)
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#40 posted Apr 14th 2019, 11:09:36
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Not only a boring race but probably,once again, a boring season. After 3 races the gap between number 1 and 3 is allready 29 points. There are deasend teams, there are verry good teams, and....there is Mercedes ! So, Ferrari and Red Bull, try to suprises us. Still 18 races to come.
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#41 posted Apr 14th 2019, 11:12:35
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Quote ( Lyee Chong @ April 14th 2019,09:51:52 ) I don't agree, as I haven't finish watching the full race. Just now I slept through the second half of the race :)
Maybe that was the reason you were falling a sleep.
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ April 14th 2019,09:47:31 ) What a boring race!
Stunningly so... and I got up early for it....
Was there any overtaking apart from when the teams ordered it????
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Quote ( Marc Meuleman @ April 14th 2019,11:09:36 ) Not only a boring race but probably,once again, a boring season. After 3 races the gap between number 1 and 3 is allready 29 points. There are deasend teams, there are verry good teams, and....there is Mercedes ! So, Ferrari and Red Bull, try to suprises us. Still 18 races to come. Do not panic. Ferrari were clearly the quicker team in Bahrain. In Melbourne nobody knows what the hell happened, Mercedes just found good pace there. There will probably be more races like that, but not too many. Here in China the difference between Merc and Ferrari was tiny.
It seems popular to cry about an overly dominant Mercedes, but I disagree with that.
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#44 posted Apr 14th 2019, 14:14:53
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ April 14th 2019,12:29:57 ) Quote ( Marc Meuleman @ April 14th 2019,11:09:36 )
Not only a boring race but probably,once again, a boring season. After 3 races the gap between number 1 and 3 is allready 29 points. There are deasend teams, there are verry good teams, and....there is Mercedes ! So, Ferrari and Red Bull, try to suprises us. Still 18 races to come. Do not panic. Ferrari were clearly the quicker team in Bahrain. In Melbourne nobody knows what the hell happened, Mercedes just found good pace there. There will probably be more races like that, but not too many. Here in China the difference between Merc and Ferrari was tiny.
It seems popular to cry about an overly dominant Mercedes, but I disagree with that.
Yeah perhaps Ferrari (and Red Bull) will still out-do Mercedes in some individual races, it wont be as bad as 14-16. But as far as the title race goes I would definitely be ready to call the season done and dusted. The Mercedes race day operation (as well as Hamilton) is far too efficient and error-free in comparison to Ferrari's. The latter would need a significant AND consistent car advantage to overcome their deficiencies. What these 3 races have proven is that they don't have one.
I mean, just imagine the variety and magnitude of the disasters that could take place if Ferrari should have tried to pit two cars with a 5 second gap like Mercedes did...
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#45 posted Apr 14th 2019, 14:42:11
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Quote ( Marc Meuleman @ April 14th 2019,11:09:36 ) Not only a boring race but probably,once again, a boring season. After 3 races the gap between number 1 and 3 is allready 29 points. There are deasend teams, there are verry good teams, and....there is Mercedes ! So, Ferrari and Red Bull, try to suprises us. Still 18 races to come.
Indeed, I mean third 1-2 finish at the start of the season? Last time this happened was 27 years ago! (92 with Mansell and Patrese)
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#46 posted Apr 14th 2019, 14:51:10
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Quote ( Andrew Wilden @ April 13th 2019,13:44:12 ) They also tried to claim it was a cost cutting decision for the teams.
Not sure why, a full tank of fuel is less economical than a 1/3rd or 1/2 full one :)
Quote ( Jack Benson @ April 13th 2019,13:30:41 ) Well he certainly didn't break any rules but it isn't going to make him many friends. People might start passing him now in qualifying now just before the line.
The fact the main discussion of the weekend is a qualifying incident is a shame for the sport I think. And this isn't even Mercedes fault that the championship is so boring. Ross Brawn and liberty need to start making tough decisions. There seems to be quite reluctance to do that, and of course we all know why. The 'F' word!
Anyway great weekend for Alex Albon. Probably did the best job out there today.
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#47 posted Apr 14th 2019, 17:36:24
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 14th 2019,14:51:10 ) The fact the main discussion of the weekend is a qualifying incident is a shame for the sport I think. And this isn't even Mercedes fault that the championship is so boring. Ross Brawn and liberty need to start making tough decisions. There seems to be quite reluctance to do that, and of course we all know why. The 'F' word!
What are you suggesting?
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#48 posted Apr 14th 2019, 18:16:10
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Ferrari is ruining their chances of winning if they just let vettel beat leclerc every single time it's a 50/50 situation.
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This article puts it all very well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47926537
Especially the conclusion:
"Had Ferrari simply let their drivers race, the picture would potentially look a little different.
From the pace at which he caught him on fresher tyres in Melbourne, it seems likely Leclerc would have passed Vettel for fourth place.
Had they let them race in China, and prioritised the lead driver at pit stops as is normal practice in F1, Leclerc would have finished third, not Vettel.
That would give Leclerc seven more points than he has now - and put him 25 points behind Hamilton, as well as ahead of Verstappen into third place overall. So, ironically, Ferrari would potentially be in a better position in the championship had they not pursued a policy aimed at maximising their position in the championship.
Those points are gone forever now. But if that is not causing some serious pause for thought at Ferrari, one could be forgiven for thinking it probably should be."
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#50 posted Apr 14th 2019, 18:34:46
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Ferarri's self-sabotage is delicious to watch.
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#51 posted Apr 14th 2019, 18:45:38
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Also, 3 races, 3 times the pole positioned man wasnt in the lead in the first corner. Is there now more advantage to being 2nd?
As for everything else, what a poor 1000th race xD Albon is probably one of the drivers of the season, especially since he had little experience when testing the F1 car, and is now slightly better than Kvyat
Other conclusions... Mercedes are just being boring, hopefully Ferrari do what Merc did last season and beat them later one or its gonna be another procession. Only problem they have is both Hamilton and Bottas are performing
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#52 posted Apr 15th 2019, 14:18:01
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#53 posted Apr 15th 2019, 14:48:06
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ April 14th 2019,09:47:31 ) What a boring race!
A bit worrying that the formation lap was the most exciting part!
Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ April 14th 2019,18:32:49 ) That would give Leclerc seven more points than he has now - and put him 25 points behind Hamilton, as well as ahead of Verstappen into third place overall. So, ironically, Ferrari would potentially be in a better position in the championship had they not pursued a policy aimed at maximising their position in the championship.
I'm not sure I agree - it presumes that Leclerc is in fact the best chance that Ferrari has at winning the Driver's Championship. That might well be the case, but it's very early to say.
Vettel was quicker in Melbourne up until the final stint - and we know that Ferrari were managing whatever issues they have. Leclerc then smashed Vettel in Bahrain, but Vettel edged him pace-wise in China.
I think Ferrari wanted to at least have a go for the victory in China whilst protecting them both from Max, who was slowly catching - the order made sense to me.
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#54 posted Apr 15th 2019, 15:56:13
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Quote ( Geoff Atkin @ April 15th 2019,14:48:06 ) …. but Vettel edged him pace-wise in China.
Not sure about this tbh actually. Vettel wasn't quicker when he was let through and actually ended up holding Leclerc up as it turned out it was simply the DRS helping Vettel keep up, rather than Vettel actually being quicker, and then Ferrari sacrificed Leclerc's race to try hold up Bottas, which didn't work out, which in turn cost him even more time.
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#55 posted Apr 15th 2019, 16:19:25
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For a few laps Vettel made silly errors in trying to break away from Leclerc - for that period he held him up.
Crucially, he did eventually break away Leclerc's DRS range, which is something Leclerc wasn't able to do to Vettel when the roles were reversed - based on that I would say that Vettel was marginally faster.
But you are right, the gap between them by the end wasn't representative as Leclerc was repeatedly shafted with old 'Kimi strategy'!
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#56 posted Apr 15th 2019, 16:23:03
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I agree with Geoff, Vettel was slightly quicker than Leclerc. Ferrari made the wrong call in hindsight, but at the time there was definitely a case for the team order.
The should have known that Vettel was only slightly faster though. If he was significantly quicker, he would have been able to at least start an overtaking attempt, which he never could. I think a good team rule in such cases is that the guy in front doesn't slow down to let the other pass, but he does let the door open in case an overtaking attempt is made.
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#57 posted Apr 15th 2019, 17:12:02
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Wasnt Leclerc on harder on harder tyres than Vettel and thats why he was slightly quicker?
I think Ferrari lost a 3 4 by doing team orders.
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#58 posted Apr 15th 2019, 17:42:56
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ April 15th 2019,16:23:03 ) I think a good team rule in such cases is that the guy in front doesn't slow down to let the other pass, but he does let the door open in case an overtaking attempt is made. I agree.
I think it was Hungary 2014 that Lewis was told to let Nico past and he told them that he was not going to slow down for him but if he got close enough to overtake then he would let him by.
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Race was crap.. Vettels days are numbered as Leclerc will out run him in an open fight !
Ferrari have some real thinking to do here ! They need to be fair with the Kid .. Just my opinion !
The above about Lewis/Nico.. Yes correct.. But Lewis is as good as Vettel at taking orders,, And RIGHTLY so !
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#60 posted Apr 15th 2019, 21:26:22
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it feels like the championship is already over lol
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