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Topic: second hand used parts |
41 replies
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this is just a suggestion.
second hand used parts
We should buy used parts in store
example :
parts in the market
buy
used engines 65 % Level 1 price: xxx
engines used 45 % Level 3 price: xxx
or
gear used 60 % Level 4 price: xxx
others may sell used parts
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#3 posted Aug 6th 2019, 11:11:49
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others may sell used parts
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ August 6th 2019,11:11:49 ) others may sell used parts This could be easily exploited. No money transfer between managers.
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#5 posted Aug 6th 2019, 11:48:11
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I wonder how many people will make multiple double accounts to buy the parts off of you and then you will have loads of money! Especially if you sell them for the 30m
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#6 posted Aug 6th 2019, 12:00:16
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Quote ( Gergely Kondár @ August 6th 2019,11:14:47 ) This could be easily exploited.
Example please
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#7 posted Aug 6th 2019, 12:01:55
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ August 6th 2019,11:48:11 ) I wonder how many people will make multiple double accounts to buy the parts off of you and then you will have loads of money! Especially if you sell them for the 30m
It could use fixed prices. Like the percentage of the part that is still good. For example 50% of a 50% weared part, or 20% for a 80% part.
But it still can be exploited... And what would happen to you, if you sell your engine? What would remain? :) And on the other hand, who would buy something after you used it till it basically dead.
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#8 posted Aug 6th 2019, 13:50:22
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I can imagine his line of thought:
I have a level 5 engine with 80% wear, and I replace it with a new level 6 engine with 0% wear.
So I can sell that level 5 used engine to another manager?
Although that happens in gokarts and lower series it doesn't happen in higher series or F1 (yes I know GPRO is not F1.)
Haas has an old Ferrari engine and it is time to swap it, so they asked Ferrari for a new one.
What happens with the old engine?
Can Haas sell it to another person (I can imagine the first buyers to be the competitor engine manufacturers).
No! Ferrari takes that old engine back either for refurbishing or for scrap.
The same thing happens here, your old part is given back to GPRO where it is literally broken into bits that are never used back.
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#9 posted Aug 6th 2019, 15:58:17
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Can't see this working. Too complicated and we have no other aspects of finances that transfer between managers.
It might make sense from a purchasers point of view, but then no one downgrade they would just sell to others.
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Yep,
Another typical Fakup idea 👎
Oh, sorry for the typo 😆
Wasn't like it was deliberate 😄
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Who would buy the parts, I’d have them for free tho to eek out an extra race
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Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ August 6th 2019,13:50:22 ) I can imagine his line of thought:
I have a level 5 engine with 80% wear, and I replace it with a new level 6 engine with 0% wear.
So I can sell that level 5 used engine to another manager?
Although that happens in gokarts and lower series it doesn't happen in higher series or F1 (yes I know GPRO is not F1.)
Haas has an old Ferrari engine and it is time to swap it, so they asked Ferrari for a new one.
What happens with the old engine?
Can Haas sell it to another person (I can imagine the first buyers to be the competitor engine manufacturers).
No! Ferrari takes that old engine back either for refurbishing or for scrap.
The same thing happens here, your old part is given back to GPRO where it is literally broken into bits that are never used back.
Haas just keeps the engine in the pool for Practice unless it breaks down.
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The obvious problem with this is it takes away the challenge of managing you car parts over the course of a season.
For example, say I predict that I should need 6.2 engines for a season. Under the current system I can either buy 6 engines and figure out a way to reduce my wear in places, risk smoking and maybe not finishing a race, or spend the money and buy 7 engines, letting one of them mostly go to waste. Of course this is a simplification and doesn't take into account all the factor that go into season planning but it shows the difficult managerial decisions that go into parts purchases over the course of the season. Being able to buy and sell used parts eliminates that, as one can now effectively purchase only as much of a part as they need.
Now we can take this even further, if you can sell used parts and so effectively get no parts waste, what is to stop you from buying a completely new car every race, selling your old parts at a rate where you are only paying for the wear you put on them the previous race. Or even beyond that, you could buy a mixture of new and used parts as you want them to get a perfect or at least near-perfect PHA match every race.
Having a used parts market would seriously degrade the aspects of part management and medium-term planning.
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So everyone would creat multis and transfer cash to eachothers buying bad parts with 99% wear for 500M$?
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example:
new :
engine level 5 price: 6m$
but used parts
engine level 5 (60%) price: 2.5m$
or
engine level 5 (40%) price 4m$
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user sell:
engine level 5 (60%) 1.5m$
this sell only gpro store.
--------------------------------------------------
gpro store sell:
engine level 5 (60%) 2.5m$
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#16 posted Aug 10th 2019, 11:43:18
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this kind of idea has been proposed before and it is too high a risk of exploiting rules and fake accounts and teams favouring teammembers etc.
The ida of having parts on a shelf is a no-go.
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#17 posted Aug 10th 2019, 11:53:06
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ August 10th 2019,11:43:18 ) this kind of idea has been proposed before and it is too high a risk of exploiting rules and fake accounts and teams favouring teammembers etc.
The ida of having parts on a shelf is a no-go.
why bad idea?
never will users sell to each other
only gpro store sell
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#18 posted Aug 10th 2019, 13:22:56
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Yakup, GPRO store sells hats, shirts and pencils. There's no room left for used engines.
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#19 posted Aug 10th 2019, 14:13:32
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I don't like the idea.
But what happens to the guy that sells.the part, since he will no longer have a part to swap for a new one will he now get a LVL 1 part?.
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From what I understand, he's not saying people are going to sell parts. Consider this as the car update page has options to buy parts with 0%-20%-40%-60%-80% wear & reduced cost according to it.
I haven't thought too much about it but the first thought is, since PHA matching got more important and there is a hidden PHA factor, I think that idea makes some sense.
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ August 6th 2019,11:11:49 ) others may sell used parts
OK just read this.
He's suggesting to let people sell their worn car parts to GPRO. GPRO can stock them and sell them to other managers if one wants to get a car part with some wear on it. Like you can see in some page (possibly car update page) how many worn engines there are (that people sold to GPRO) & what are their wear percentages.
Maybe there can be a limit wear percentage that if your part exceeds that limit, you can't sell the part.
There can be fixed costs for every part level & wear percentage. No bids/offers. No manager to manager interaction.
And as Eduardo asked, if one sells a part, what happens? Maybe he/she has to buy that part before the race starts & if doesn't, GPRO charges a new level 1 part? Idk.
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#21 posted Aug 10th 2019, 14:50:14
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So the basic benefits from the current situation is
a) money for selling parts
and
b) basically have the option to buy any option available of 'level part' * 'wear part'
in stead of buying new (100%) or downgrade (limit options).
and
c) have more options to fit your car to a track and crack setups thru testing
And this should be made available thru
a) a market of some sort with limited stock (from selling) and buying thru bidding or 1st come 1st serve
or
b) a (unlimited) stock of all options available at every moment
?
And the place to do that is the car update section where you swap a old part for a new part. @Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo (P1) ; I suspect that since you can only upgrade / update once, you can choose so get a level 1 part, but you have to wait until after the race for the next upgrade.
I am still unsure what the real benefits are for game play here, even I am now convinced that there is no option for exploitation thru double accounts etc.
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#22 posted Aug 10th 2019, 15:05:07
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ August 10th 2019,14:50:14 ) b) basically have the option to buy any option available of 'level part' * 'wear part'
This can be capped like how the current system works. Like if you have a L4 part, you can't replace it with a part level more than 5 even if it's worn
Quote ( Hans Barf @ August 10th 2019,14:50:14 ) I suspect that since you can only upgrade / update once, you can choose so get a level 1 part, but you have to wait until after the race for the next upgrade.
Maybe if one changes a car part (with a new one or a worn one) while updating, the old part could go to GPRO storage automatically (if the old part has lower wear than the limit that GPRO allows you to sell) & GPRO pays that old part's cost to the manager.
TBH, say this became a feature, I don't think it'll be used too much considering the fixed prices won't give managers too big advantages. Making early updates are overspendings and mostly done in Master & Elite, not even all the time. Of course, there are people who do it in the lower divisions but I don't think this feature will affect lower divisions too much in regards to strategical options. In fact, people with less knowledge will harm their finances with it.
Maybe I'm wrong, just thinking out loud.
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#23 posted Aug 10th 2019, 15:12:14
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...Our Private Cargo Room Ahmet.!!!
...with our Parts under 95% Wear.!!!
...I suggested it 2 years before.
:)
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#24 posted Aug 10th 2019, 15:57:40
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So selling it to GPRO makes it difficult for exploit other than PHA matching but I find another issue:
Ok next race is Indy Oval and I expect 70% engine wear.
So I have this level 6 engine at 50% wear new engine is worth 10mill so you sell this engine in 2.5 mill (50% of its remaining life).
Then you buy a lvl 7 engine at 12 million.
So your net expenditure is 9.5 million.
Making it a money manufacturing machine.
Let's remember that all used parts are currently "returned" to GPRO for digital refurbishment or destroying.
You don't buy new parts you rent them and swap them at a cost for new ones.
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Quote ( Ioannis Kalogirou @ August 10th 2019,15:12:14 ) .Our Private Cargo Room Ahmet.!!!
...with our Parts under 95% Wear.!!!
...I suggested it 2 years before.
I'm not suggesting anything like this, though :D
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ August 10th 2019,15:57:40 ) Making it a money manufacturing machine.
That one time you get 2.5M profit maybe but changing an engine every time when it's on 50% wear - there is no way you can profit in the long run.
The costs don't have to be linear, like a full cost for a brand new engine but maybe more than the half cost for a 50% worn one. As I said above, the prices can be decided to prevent managers from getting big advantages financially.
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ August 10th 2019,15:57:40 ) Let's remember that all used parts are currently "returned" to GPRO for digital refurbishment or destroying.
You don't buy new parts you rent them and swap them at a cost for new ones.
Yeah, but what does this have to do with the suggestion? This explanation, what's written there, can change anytime if a better system appears, right? :D
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#26 posted Aug 11th 2019, 10:16:19
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the goal is not to make a profit anyway.
the purchased piece must be at the same level as the sold piece.
for example: sell engine with 70% wear.
the piece taken from the store must be expensive than the piece sold
example: 70 % price : 1m$
gpro store : 50% price 2.5m$
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Quote ( Ahmet Sonverdi @ August 12th 2019,18:57:40 )
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ August 11th 2019,10:16:19 ) the goal is not to make a profit anyway.
According to you the goal actually IS to make profit
Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ August 11th 2019,10:16:19 ) the purchased piece must be at the same level as the sold piece.
for example: sell engine with 70% wear.
the piece taken from the store must be expensive than the piece sold
example: 70 % price : 1m$
gpro store : 50% price 2.5m$
At this moment you can buy that part shiny new 0%with (let's say) $6 M, and you'd suggest the option to buy "half used" for discount, which would make it cheaper and easier, that would take away from parts management.
I have no doubt in my mind that your main purpose behind this suggestion is to reduce the aspects of parts/money management, making planning ahead less important and cheaper to get away with things.
The idea being that no-one would downgrade, no-one would buy shiny new parts, everyone would just buy the cheaper 50% used parts making it cheaper for everyone across the board. As such I don't think there's much merit in the suggestion.
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#29 posted Aug 13th 2019, 14:37:06
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 13th 2019,14:06:51 ) The idea being that no-one would downgrade, no-one would buy shiny new parts, everyone would just buy the cheaper 50% used parts making it cheaper for everyone across the board. As such I don't think there's much merit in the suggestion.
If no-one would buy shiny new parts, than no-one would sell 50% parts, so no-one could buy those. I don't see how this makes things "easier", or how this takes away.
Obviously you cannot plan that someone will sell something you need at the point you need. And how to decide who gets a certain part? The whole thing seems so random that you will probably in the same spot as now.
Quote ( Hans Barf @ August 10th 2019,14:50:14 ) I am still unsure what the real benefits are for game play here, even I am now convinced that there is no option for exploitation thru double accounts etc.
I agree.
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#30 posted Aug 13th 2019, 17:28:03
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ August 11th 2019,10:16:19 ) the goal is not to make a profit anyway
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 13th 2019,14:06:51 ) According to you the goal actually IS to make profit
only saving the day
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