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Topic: Car Upgrade $ list |
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#1 posted Feb 14th 2020, 03:36:53
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Greetings,
So here is the thing and I would like to understand the logic/reasoning in this.
If I go to staff and training I can see the costs for example: Training type Costs Stress handling: $1.500.000 Concentration: $1.000.000 Efficiency: $1.250.000 Same is I go to driver training: Session type Cost Fitness class: $750.000 Yoga: $700.000 PR Training: $500.000 Technical training: $600.000 Sports psychologist:$400.000 Ninja class: $550.000 And this even if I already trained my driver or staff. And so I can plan where to spend my future expenses. But once once I have upgraded the car I cannot access the drop down menus to see the cost of improving my car NEXT time.
Why is this the case? Or is it perhaps a flaw with internet browser I am using?
Thanks,
a.
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#2 posted Feb 14th 2020, 03:59:59
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It is not fault. After the reset of the race you will see it again.
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#3 posted Feb 14th 2020, 05:40:59
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staff management>training>Available training sessions
other:
Staff and Facilities>Training type or Upgrade/downgrade facilities
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#4 posted Feb 14th 2020, 09:06:52
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Wouldn't think about it too deeply, just create a spreadsheet with the values on.
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#5 posted Feb 14th 2020, 09:13:02
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Ah, I see what you mean. You'd like a complete list of how much car parts cost to upgrade on each level? This information is not available in the game Wiki, but a bit of creative internet searching should get you what you need pretty quickly.
It's not secret information, but it is something GPRO intends to let you find out as you play instead of giving it out beforehand.
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Really, removed my post with prices of car parts?
Which of the eager mods can i thank for that?
Look, this is a management game with plenty of uncertainties already. Planning a season is probably the most important thing to do. Such planning requires some basic knowledge on what things cost. Like training, like facility upgrades, and that would in my opinion also apply to car part costs.
I honestly see less than zero reason to hide the price of a level 6 engine for a newcomer until he has bought a lvl5 one.
You know what, i'll make this shit available online somewhere else. Jesus christ.
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Oh, and since the post was bluntly deleted rather than edited, i'd like to have the 0,1 credits that i spent on revealing dislikes refunded to my account. Thanks very much.
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#8 posted Feb 14th 2020, 14:52:12
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ February 14th 2020,14:25:03 ) Really, removed my post with prices of car parts?
For what it's worth car part prices would be an easy place to start in gaining an understanding of how to interpret & extrapolate game data. With basic excel skills one can know the scaling of part prices by level 3 parts. Perhaps your post was deleted because it didn't encourage someone to explore this one part of the game that is readily decipherable.
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#9 posted Feb 14th 2020, 14:57:56
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That's indeed fairly easy to achieve Scott. But does GPRO want newcomers to be able to extrapolate a mere six data points based on 3 known? Or would it be better to hand newcomers the necessary basic info to plan ahead?
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#10 posted Feb 14th 2020, 15:18:32
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ February 14th 2020,14:57:56 ) That's indeed fairly easy to achieve Scott. But does GPRO want newcomers to be able to extrapolate a mere six data points based on 3 known? Or would it be better to hand newcomers the necessary basic info to plan ahead?
One won't be that far off (tens, maybe a few hundreds) if L1 prices are multiplied by the same number for each level higher all the way up to L9 ;)
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#11 posted Feb 14th 2020, 15:23:20
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A newcomer doesnt know that until he reaches a level 3 though ;)
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#12 posted Feb 14th 2020, 15:31:23
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I wonder how newcomers managed to survive some years ago without all the tools and websites which are available today.
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#13 posted Feb 14th 2020, 15:45:16
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Yes yes, cavemen also made fire. And they did it without lighters. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use lighters nowadays, does it?
But sure, let's just give the newcomers an extra hurdle to overcome to match up with long term players. As if the knowledge - or lack thereof - about fuel consumption, energy usage, risk effects on wear and whatever isn't enough of a gap already
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#14 posted Feb 14th 2020, 16:01:08
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As I said, if you don't want to go along that way there are plenty of tools around giving many, many answers without having to think too much.
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This is what I dont get about this game. It wants to grow, yet seems set to forever refuse to acknowledge any of the fundemental changes in approach that need to happen to achieve that, changes that would literally do absolutely nothing the competitive aspect/nature of the game while at the same time moving proverbial mountains when it comes to removing obsolete, self-detrimental, serve-no-purpose-but-to-harm-the-games-growth obstacles at entry level.
So much fundemental game design theory out there that has been developed, aimed at understanding of these balances, game theory is now an actual university degree, they been so explored, and yet, nope... Gpro not budging, and yet somehow, why it continues to struggle for any remotely sustainable growth somehow remains a mystery... the mindboggles.
Its suppose to be management game. So, make it a management game. Dont block that behind stupid nonsensical hidden information puzzles that serve no other purpose but to drive away new players. Focus on whatts intuitive for a management game centred in racing. Dont hide things like car part prices and call that 'management' cause it very much is not, and just serves to make the game design appear as arrogant, full of itself and elitest, which is very much the last thing you want in any game design.
GPRO should be a game, not a status.
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#16 posted Feb 14th 2020, 16:30:05
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You seem to have dropped a microphone there MG. Amen.
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ February 14th 2020,16:30:05 ) You seem to have dropped a microphone there MG. Amen.
Wouldnt require any changes to game engine. Just a shift in how the game communicates. Its been long accepted fact now that hiding how to play a game is just stupid and utterly flawed, self-destructive game design. And no, we not talking about the genuine management stuff like tyre wear, fuel, strategies etc.
We're talking actual 'how to play fundemental info' no well designed game would ever in its right mind want to hide from its players, such as what each type of driver training does for a driver do to the driver stats, staff training etc, this makes so sense making players literally waste resources to learn these things, like seriously, in what world is this 'good', 'clever' game design?
These are not signs of good game, these are things that would get you flunking out of game design classes, decisions in game design that would have you fired, in game design that would ordinarily kill a game entirely, which actually speaks of how the game continues despite decisions, not because of them. At its core, at its engine, Gpro is a great game, its time the decisions were made to launch it, rather than continuely hold it back.
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#18 posted Feb 14th 2020, 18:29:36
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Keep the prices hidden if for no other reason then to make Miel insane.
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#19 posted Feb 14th 2020, 18:32:43
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Quote ( Brad Marshall @ February 14th 2020,18:29:36 ) Keep the prices hidden if for no other reason then to make Miel insane. That sounds like an acceptable reason :)
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LVL CHASSIS [] ENGINE [] F. WING [] R.WING [] UNDERB [] SIDEPOTS [] COOLER [] GEARBOX [] BREAKS [] SUSPENS [] ELECTRONIC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 1.292.539
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#21 posted Feb 14th 2020, 18:56:51
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ February 14th 2020,16:01:49 ) Its suppose to be management game. So, make it a management game. Dont block that behind stupid nonsensical hidden information puzzles that serve no other purpose but to drive away new players. Am I the only one who would leave if there was no puzzle aspect of this game? There are tons of "just management" games out there. The puzzle aspect is what keeps me interested in gpro instead of choosing another one. For me, the game is actually centered at the puzzle part, and racing is only the theme.
There are some parts of the game that are nonsensically tried to be hidden. Parts prices is one of them. But not all unknowns in gpro are bad. Tyres, fuel and stuff like that is very realistic to be kept unknown. And the path of first finding the big thing that influences it, then smaller and smaller is also very realistic.
I don't care how many people play this game. There are enough many who like it because of the same reasons as I do. Making it the same as everything else just to increase player base - that's a no from me.
That said, I agree that the game should be more open to new players. But please, not all the way to revealing everything about the gameplay just to get more players.
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Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ February 14th 2020,18:56:51 ) Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ February 14th 2020,16:01:49 )
Its suppose to be management game. So, make it a management game. Dont block that behind stupid nonsensical hidden information puzzles that serve no other purpose but to drive away new players. Am I the only one who would leave if there was no puzzle aspect of this game? There are tons of "just management" games out there. The puzzle aspect is what keeps me interested in gpro instead of choosing another one. For me, the game is actually centered at the puzzle part, and racing is only the theme.
There are some parts of the game that are nonsensically tried to be hidden. Parts prices is one of them. But not all unknowns in gpro are bad. Tyres, fuel and stuff like that is very realistic to be kept unknown. And the path of first finding the big thing that influences it, then smaller and smaller is also very realistic.
I don't care how many people play this game. There are enough many who like it because of the same reasons as I do. Making it the same as everything else just to increase player base - that's a no from me.
That said, I agree that the game should be more open to new players. But please, not all the way to revealing everything about the gameplay just to get more players.
You may want to read my posts again. Alot of the puzzles are adequately on theme and correct, such as tyre wear, fuel etc, I actually specifically mention those things myself.
What we talking about are the the sorts of hidden information that are off theme, that are integral to the simple elements of how to play.
Like having to literally waste money to figure out what the different trainings do? Why? Why punish new players like that? Literally no gameplay value whatever, all it does it frustrate new players, how is that, 'clever'? Why hide what the parts cost?
All the things that make intuitive sense not to know, that require research in real life, investment of time and finance and brain power, make sense to be in a game lile this.
But dont go forcing players to waste money to figure out what the buttons in the game in the do, that is just stupid. Dont go hiding information that really has no business being hidden, like car part prices or what training does, thats just poor and tbh stupidly arrogant game design.
Time to stop being stubborn and fearing change and acknowledge the flaws in the original concept, acknowledge the game theory lessons that should be implemented that will only improve the game experience for everybody concerned.
Its not about making the game easier. If thats what you worried about, then may I advise you take a breath, count to 10, and read my comments again.
Its not about easier, its about better focused and directed, bringing it in line with accepted game theory, apply the lessons the world has learnt since Gpro first begin, lesson of what makes a game good and what makes it bad.
None of the autnentic challenges, puzzles and yes, intuitively hidden information one has to figure out to be competitive and reach elite will be even remotely touched as none of that is the problem... its the silly things, car part prices, what training does, etc, all that sort of 'how the game works basics' that is the stuff being spoken about and that is the stuff really should change to have a truly sustainable GPRO.
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#23 posted Feb 14th 2020, 19:19:18
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I must have misunderstood the meaning of puzzles then. I don't consider car parts price a puzzle, while I have seen people complain about having to figure out fuel, so I mistakenly took you as one of those. I suppose we agree on the main issue then :)
However, I would draw the line in a different place. Trainings are hard to decide for me whether they are good like that or not (and you including them was also the reason I misunderstood your previous post). I don't think it's hard to search the forums to find that Yoga increases Concentration for example, so it's not the matter of spending gpro money. But figuring out how much exactly Concentration - why not? This also makes sense to me compared to reality - you know which direction your training will go, but you need a couple of training sessions to measure how much exactly.
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Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ February 14th 2020,19:19:18 ) I must have misunderstood the meaning of puzzles then. I don't consider car parts price a puzzle, while I have seen people complain about having to figure out fuel, so I mistakenly took you as one of those. I suppose we agree on the main issue then :)
However, I would draw the line in a different place. Trainings are hard to decide for me whether they are good like that or not (and you including them was also the reason I misunderstood your previous post). I don't think it's hard to search the forums to find that Yoga increases Concentration for example, so it's not the matter of spending gpro money. But figuring out how much exactly Concentration - why not? This also makes sense to me compared to reality - you know which direction your training will go, but you need a couple of training sessions to measure how much exactly.
In what way does that attitude to what the buttons in the game do do anything but harm the game. Seriously, think about it. Its genuine question. How does not providing that info actually make for a better game experience in shape or form? What value is there in frustrating new players like that by hiding things that make absolutely no other impact on than to make them waste their in game resources for no reason whatsoever. Having to make players google to literally find out what pressing a button on your game userface does is an example of some the worst game design decisions one can make.
We not talking precise figures, but what it does, good and bad, heck, in almost every single case, the only figures provided would be the price involved. Yoga increasing concentration as the price of stamina isnt intuitive, those simple elements. Like car parts, not the ccp details, but the basic descriptions, what each part does in general. Why hide that info. Yes, hide the exact details, but do give simple in game info such as 'note this part impacts power and acceleration'. You literally do nothing but give new players direction. You make zero impact anywhere in the game other than the new player experience, one of the most important aspects true longterm sustainability, especially as the world gets faster and more demanding.
In a nutshell, its simply about a simple message of:
'Hey kid, while we cant give you exact details, here' s a basic description of what this button does and what it costs you, choose wisely',
and very much NOT, and I repeat NOT!!! about
'hey kid, here is everything you need to know to win and beat all those sad veterans who spent years researching and learning these exact figures and equations, have fun whipping their sorry asses'.
Like I said. Time GPRO was a game, not a status.
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Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ February 14th 2020,18:56:51 ) Am I the only one who would leave if there was no puzzle aspect of this game? There are tons of "just management" games out there. The puzzle aspect is what keeps me interested in gpro instead of choosing another one. I dont' think you are. I do think that keeping some aspect for the managers to find contributes to the longevity of the experience and keeps like-minded people here.
Some people are just "I want everything right now" type :)
In somewhat recent past gpro has revealed a lot information that has made me question the point and "integrity&point" of it, though that information is not what the main topic of this discussion here now is. The information I'm referring to in this chapter is the information relating to what other managers do. as one example "advertising" the sponsors of other managers or how much testing other managers are doing.
That said, the car parts prices aren't really rocket science, when a new manager joins, (s) gets the update parts page with the cost of level 1 & level 2 parts, comparing those 2 it's fairly easy to extrapolate the cost of all levels.
Now putting my "thinking cap" on... why hide the car parts costs... ...
Maybe it's a way to encourage managers to find correlations between things (?) To get them used to thinking for themselves and coming up with ideas and testing them in practise, to find good ways to be competitive. By looking into the more simple things can come more complex and useful ways to approach different aspects of gpro.
All that said, I would not be against putting a list of parts prices, a relatively easy way technically would be to list them on the documents:
and example: there is a list like this: https://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=Race_winnings
There could potentially also be a similar list to this page: https://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=Update_Car just populated with car parts costs
Would that^^ be a good idea I don't know... but I would not be categorically against it either.
Just stop revealing the managers actions to everyone.
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#26 posted Feb 14th 2020, 23:30:33
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All experienced players have been through all this and certainly much more than new players today have to do. Nowadays you don't need to understand how to find the correct setup, fuel consumption, tyres wear etc... There are tools for everyone calculating these for you.
I believe that the gap between old players and new players has more to do with experience rather than pure technical knowledge. It's about how to use the knowledge, rather than the knowledge itself.
I don't understand what else new players want in terms of facilitation. Maybe I'm just envious that all the tools which are available today were not there when I started and all that basic stuff about setup, fuel, tyres, car wear etc. I had really to find out by myself and with team mates with hard work and cooperation.
There are things that are very easy to find out just collecting some data, without the need to guess any formula. Is it that terrible?
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#27 posted Feb 15th 2020, 00:37:46
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#28 posted Feb 15th 2020, 02:55:05
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Wow, I did not thing my humble post would generate so relies' I did not read everything but here are a few thoughts. . I worked for decades as an IT/telecom project manager. A very very basic thing was to understand the clients need (here winning) and the cost to achieve that goal. **disclaimer, I try to actually use my leisure time to better myself management game is one way to do so. If i had a service provider tell me ''Try me''
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#29 posted Feb 15th 2020, 03:16:05
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it appears my reply was cut short. So I will take that , meaningful, informed replies are not welcome. Instead of being a conversation this is becoming a farce for who ever can post the fastest. If this is a management game I can tell you, I would never hire a contractor who won't tell me how much their work cost. Laughable, really. BTW when the game started I am sure everyone had a knife today oldtimers appear to have an ak47 and the new players are given a knife.
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#30 posted Feb 15th 2020, 03:30:38
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Quote ( Alain Routhier @ February 15th 2020,03:16:05 ) it appears my reply was cut short. So I will take that , meaningful, informed replies are not welcome. Instead of being a conversation this is becoming a farce for who ever can post the fastest.
Not sure what you're getting at there. Are you saying someone came in and edited your post to remove major chunks of it? O.o
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