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Topic: Russia has attacked Ukraine! |
18311 replies
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Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ March 8th 2022,03:03:52 )
Gpro is a game and not reality of what happens in the world.
We don't have to ban Russian or other People, we have to be responsible of internet peace
I totally get what you're saying Sebastien, and it's a fair point. The reason I asked the question is because of something I just read on the BBC News site which raised the issue and it shows what a difficult position a lot of businesses, both big and small, now find themselves in. I've copied it below.
'Ethical compass'
Dr Ian Peters, director of the Institute for Business Ethics, told BBC News: "This is not a time to sit on the fence.
"The world is likely to judge companies by what they do in such circumstances, and ethical judgement will be as important as complying with any government-led regulations and sanctions."
He said that most firms would have what they refer to as an "ethical compass" they use to make big decisions.
"We would advise firms in such circumstances always to look at the bigger picture and seek to do the right thing, putting the wider interest above short-term profit," he added.
He cited important ethical dilemmas that might come up for companies when considering to suspend operations in Russia too: What duty of care do these companies hold to employees on the ground? Is it fair to deprive Russian citizens of basic goods?
Professor of business ethics at Henley Business School, Kleio Akrivou, suggests that these types of decisions might be more difficult to reach for food companies than, say, consulting firms.
"When it comes to sanctions which deprive the Russian population of its basic goods and dignity, firms may need to approach the situation more thoughtfully, with an appeal to practical reason."
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 7th 2022,21:47:56 ) Is there democracy in China?
Are they developing normally without democracy?
Let me remind you that China still has a communist regime.
I need to remind you - how many goods are currently produced in China?
There is democracy in China. Nothing is absolutely black & white. Personally, I would say it is a different approach.
China is under communist party government, but why it is regime? What is the definition? If you didn't visit China but just read news from Western agencies, will that be any bias?
The reason why goods are produced in China is due to the low labor cost. And right now, many has moved to Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, India as the labor cost is getting higher
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 7th 2022,21:47:56 ) It takes me a long time to write here and explain why Russian society is not like European society.
in short, Europe values individualism and personal freedom the most.
Russian society is a community, joint work, the personal is placed below the public.
I agree this part with you, Dmitry. Europe do value individualism and personal freedom the most. Russia is different, and China is different.
That doesn't say: individualism and personal freedom is good or bad, it is not a simple answer question. It is just a fact and there is a long history of that.
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ March 8th 2022,02:54:00 ) I'm going to ask a question here that probably isn't going to be very popular but I think it bears discussion and it would be interesting to see what other people think on the subject.
The vast majority of the sane and civilized free world are imposing sanctions on Russia, it's sportspeople are unable to compete internationally, it's businesses (apart from gas and oil, and that should stop now in my opinion) are finding it increasingly difficult to trade with any nation with a moral backbone, and an ever growing list of companies are refusing goods and services to them. What I'm wondering is what's going to happen here? Is GPRO still accepting Russian supporter money and if so would that ever change? If the atrocities being committed in Ukraine continue would there come a point where Russian members had their accounts suspended?
Apologies to el Presidente, I don't mean to put you on the spot or cause offence, and I don't expect an answer from on high. I was just wondering what the general feeling among other managers is.
Edit: Sorry if this has been asked before, I looked but couldn't find it anywhere.
The site might be blocked by the Russian government if they discover this topic.. 😅
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ March 8th 2022,02:54:00 ) What I'm wondering is what's going to happen here? Is GPRO still accepting Russian supporter money and if so would that ever change? If the atrocities being committed in Ukraine continue would there come a point where Russian members had their accounts suspended?
Is it too hard to separate population from their government ? What did those people do wrong ? Being born under a flag of a country that is currently in war ?
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Quote ( Tianhao Chen @ March 8th 2022,03:32:48 ) Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 7th 2022,21:47:56 )
That doesn't say: individualism and personal freedom is good or bad, it is not a simple answer question. It is just a fact and there is a long history of that.
And yet we'll have to make both models coexist in the future if we want to live in peace in the next decades :)
But as long as both blocks shoot at each other that they're the "villains" of the world... and how not to, too much $$$$$ and influence (so more $$$$$) in play.
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It saddens me that Dimitry K. Dimitry S and Alexei have so much time to post on this thread. Yes, I back your rights to do so but I wonder why you have so much time to push the party line and yet I do not see any other Russians posting. I wonder and suggest that they are not able to due to pressure from their own people and government. Why is Russia so afraid to let it's own people give their opinions on what is happening. Zero tolerance for other opinions. Everything is censored other than the three amigo's who seem to have hours and hours trying to make this war seem right. A See-no-Evil, Speak-no-Evil and Hear-no-Evil trio. One saying I do not see a war, One saying it is not war and the third does not listen to anything the rest of the world has to say because Russia is so perfect. 144-5 sais otherwise. I guess we all must be wrong and Putin is right.......
I really have to wonder if the three amigo's are put up by their government to keep this thread pumping the party line. Alexei is the guy that starts saying he does not agree with war but later sais Putin is a genius and all will work out for a glorious future for Russia (while the world starts crumbling around him). Dimitry S. tries to put out the air of a critical thinking, except that anything he gives as proof is the party line and has no intention of really responding to half the questions/discussions and is the furthest from a critical thinker of any of us. Then there is Dimitry K. who is the solid Russian citizen that does not want to acknowledge anything from the west because Russia is heaven for him and anything to the contrary is just wrong and therefore the war is right.
I really do feel sad that Russia has to keep going around and around without freedoms and choice. Where their economy bottoms out and only the Oligarchs really get rich. Putin supposedly only makes $150,000 a year, yet is somehow one of the richest men on the planet. Strangely most of the GPRO community really does want the best for the average Russian but this war splits nations and people. What a joke to hear you guys suggest Ukrainians will be better off after this war, once they are part of the Russian fold. I hope they are paying you guys well.....
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I don't think it'll be too long before they ban most external sites.
Quote ( Rafal Jurowski @ March 8th 2022,03:34:08 ) The site might be blocked by the Russian government if they discover this topic.. 😅
I don't think it'll be too long before they ban most external sites.
Quote ( Stéphane Rombaux @ March 8th 2022,04:01:51 ) Is it too hard to separate population from their government ? What did those people do wrong ? Being born under a flag of a country that is currently in war ?
I'm not saying I have the answer, I was just wondering what people thought. You could equally ask what the Ukranians have done wrong yet they're being denied the right to live peacefully in their own country. Putin won't be taken down or stopped by direct action from the West, he's too well protected and secure for that to happen. It can only happen from within when his people have had enough of what his actions have done to them. That's how sanctions work. Revolutions aren't won by other countries, they're won by unhappy populations.
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ March 8th 2022,04:07:47 ) It saddens me that Dimitry K. Dimitry S and Alexei have so much time to post on this thread. Yes, I back your rights to do so but I wonder why you have so much time to push the party line and yet I do not see any other Russians posting. I wonder and suggest that they are not able to due to pressure from their own people and government. Why is Russia so afraid to let it's own people give their opinions on what is happening. Zero tolerance for other opinions. Everything is censored other than the three amigo's who seem to have hours and hours trying to make this war seem right. A See-no-Evil, Speak-no-Evil and Hear-no-Evil trio. One saying I do not see a war, One saying it is not war and the third does not listen to anything the rest of the world has to say because Russia is so perfect. 144-5 sais otherwise. I guess we all must be wrong and Putin is right.......
I really have to wonder if the three amigo's are put up by their government to keep this thread pumping the party line. Alexei is the guy that starts saying he does not agree with war but later sais Putin is a genius and all will work out for a glorious future for Russia (while the world starts crumbling around him). Dimitry S. tries to put out the air of a critical thinking, except that anything he gives as proof is the party line and has no intention of really responding to half the questions/discussions and is the furthest from a critical thinker of any of us. Then there is Dimitry K. who is the solid Russian citizen that does not want to acknowledge anything from the west because Russia is heaven for him and anything to the contrary is just wrong and therefore the war is right.
I really do feel sad that Russia has to keep going around and around without freedoms and choice. Where their economy bottoms out and only the Oligarchs really get rich. Putin supposedly only makes $150,000 a year, yet is somehow one of the richest men on the planet. Strangely most of the GPRO community really does want the best for the average Russian but this war splits nations and people. What a joke to hear you guys suggest Ukrainians will be better off after this war, once they are part of the Russian fold. I hope they are paying you guys well.....
It's stupid to repeat all the time about censorship in Russia as if it were the only censorship existed in the world.
Can you show me something similar to this analysis in CNN or BBC?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU
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I also posted this analysis by american professor before :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbj1AR_aAcE
So you can't understand that all that is happening now in Ukraine was provoked by the West.
And it pains me a lot to see all that hipocricy on western media. The people who are behind the TV channles are the same people that get beneffit of what is happening now.
If you dig deeper you will get this. But I doubt it. Because nowadays you either believe everything they tell you on TV or you are labeled as a "conspiracy theorist".
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Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ March 8th 2022,04:25:31 ) It's stupid to repeat all the time about censorship in Russia as if it were the only censorship existed in the world.
Can you show me something similar to this analysis in CNN or BBC?
I agree with you on that, Vitaly.
And I believe that many are thinking the China have strict censorship, and I'd have to say, there is. (I don't judge it is good or bad, it is just a fact).
I know the IPC President said something during the Opening Ceremony a few days ago and it is muted and not translated in China (FYI: not that many Chinese can use English so well).
For me, I don't totally trust the government and I tried to listen the voice from both sides to avoid bias.
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ March 8th 2022,04:07:47 ) Alexei is the guy that starts saying he does not agree with war but later sais Putin is a genius and all will work out for a glorious future for Russia (while the world starts crumbling around him) what's wrong, Alex? I said what I see. I hate this war, but I'm sure that Putin knows how to get a benefit from it.
What did I say wrong? Should I say that Putin started the war and has no plan for the future? Should it be better for you?
And why do you disappointed that I have a time to write here? Isn't it you who asked me a lot of questions? Of you asked me and wanted me to not to answer, tell me about it, I'd be happy to ignore.
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Provoked by the West, right... Has it ever crossed your mind why countries like Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, people of Belarus (!), Hungary (I hope...) and so on, don't want to be in Russian sphere of influence and ask for US/NATO presence in their lands? All these countries are more people, wealth, don't feel much in common with Russia (Poland-never, Ukraine-anymore?)... Hey, here's an idea - why don't you be our sphere of influence instead? Quit the crap.
I'm fed up with all the creative comments like "the truth lies in the middle", bullshit. One country launches full scale attack on another sovereign, democratic country, and threatens the world with nukes. It's not grey zone, not at all, especially when Russian bombs target civilians.
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 7th 2022,22:07:20 ) Quote ( Pavel Král @ March 7th 2022,22:01:04 )
active specialist for Russian politics.
I know many "experts on Russian politics" who live only abroad in Russia.
Do you know why?
Because they tell everyone what a tyrant, aggressor and dictator Putin is.
By the way, they were all allowed to leave the country freely, where they are imprisoned for 15 years for any opinion against Putin.
Is there no contradiction?
Tipical comunist USSR behavior: "If you criticize our goverment you have two options: leave the country or go to prison. Choose one."
This man left Russia freely in 1990s.
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Quote ( Kuba Szajbel @ March 8th 2022,07:38:15 ) Provoked by the West, right... Has it ever crossed your mind why countries like Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, people of Belarus (!), Hungary (I hope...) and so on, don't want to be in Russian sphere of influence and ask for US/NATO presence in their lands? All these countries are more people, wealth, don't feel much in common with Russia (Poland-never, Ukraine-anymore?)... Hey, here's an idea - why don't you be our sphere of influence instead? Quit the crap.
I'm fed up with all the creative comments like "the truth lies in the middle", bullshit. One country launches full scale attack on another sovereign, democratic country, and threatens the world with nukes. It's not grey zone, not at all, especially when Russian bombs target civilians.
Precisely! The point Lost in all this crap Is that Russia have attacked souvereign nation. And it's going to continue if they'll win. No country Is allowed to act like that. No excuses!
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ March 8th 2022,02:54:00 ) I'm going to ask a question here that probably isn't going to be very popular but I think it bears discussion and it would be interesting to see what other people think on the subject.
The vast majority of the sane and civilized free world are imposing sanctions on Russia, it's sportspeople are unable to compete internationally, it's businesses (apart from gas and oil, and that should stop now in my opinion) are finding it increasingly difficult to trade with any nation with a moral backbone, and an ever growing list of companies are refusing goods and services to them. What I'm wondering is what's going to happen here? Is GPRO still accepting Russian supporter money and if so would that ever change? If the atrocities being committed in Ukraine continue would there come a point where Russian members had their accounts suspended?
Apologies to el Presidente, I don't mean to put you on the spot or cause offence, and I don't expect an answer from on high. I was just wondering what the general feeling among other managers is.
Edit: Sorry if this has been asked before, I looked but couldn't find it anywhere.
what an excellent suggestion.
I wouldn’t ban all Russians though there will be some good ones, all we need to do is create a thread, where they can publicly condemn Russians actions. The ones that do get to stay, if they don’t……. Toodles.🤚🏻
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Total estimated losses of the enemy as of 6.00 March 8, 2022
Personnel over - 12000+
Tanks - 303
Armored fighting vehicles - 1036
Guns - 120
MLRS - 26
Air defense systems - 27
Aircraft - 48
Helicopters - 80
Automotive - 474
Ships/boats - 3
Tankers - 60
UAV - 7
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Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ March 8th 2022,08:44:19 ) I wouldn’t ban all Russians though there will be some good ones, all we need to do is create a thread, where they can publicly condemn Russians actions. The ones that do get to stay, if they don’t……. Toodles.🤚🏻
Excellent idea! If we also write the IP in the post, then the Russian secret service does not have to ask the admins for a long time if someone has not given their real name. Everything in one place in one topic. Saves a lot of time.
Now without kidding: why do so few Russians post here? There are a couple of options though:
* They speak bad English and therefore do not dare to enter into the complicated discussion
* They support Putin's path, but don't want to show it publicly in order to be able to continue playing in peace. Yes, there should also be people who just want to play in peace.
* They are against Putin's path, but do not want to show it publicly for fear of repression. Or because they just want to play in peace.
If I were you, I would just assume that the non-writing Russians are pretty much mostly "Category 3". That would be good for your peace of mind, wouldn't it?
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Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ March 8th 2022,09:54:41 ) f we also write the IP in the post
Based on my understanding, all Russians are also hackers, so their IP will be in any country except Russia :D
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Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ March 8th 2022,09:54:41 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ March 8th 2022,08:44:19 )
I wouldn’t ban all Russians though there will be some good ones, all we need to do is create a thread, where they can publicly condemn Russians actions. The ones that do get to stay, if they don’t……. Toodles.🤚🏻
Excellent idea! If we also write the IP in the post, then the Russian secret service does not have to ask the admins for a long time if someone has not given their real name. Everything in one place in one topic. Saves a lot of time.
Now without kidding: why do so few Russians post here? There are a couple of options though:
* They speak bad English and therefore do not dare to enter into the complicated discussion
* They support Putin's path, but don't want to show it publicly in order to be able to continue playing in peace. Yes, there should also be people who just want to play in peace.
* They are against Putin's path, but do not want to show it publicly for fear of repression. Or because they just want to play in peace.
If I were you, I would just assume that the non-writing Russians are pretty much mostly "Category 3". That would be good for your peace of mind, wouldn't it?
Let’s hope you’re keeping our data protected then. Eh?
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ March 8th 2022,09:56:04 ) Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ March 8th 2022,09:54:41 )
f we also write the IP in the post
Based on my understanding, all Russians are also hackers, so their IP will be in any country except Russia :D
I wouldn't find it akward if I even saw a marsion IP
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Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ March 8th 2022,10:15:21 ) Let’s hope you’re keeping our data protected then. Eh?
That you can be sure of! :-)
And it was intended just to be a small exaggeration.
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Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ March 8th 2022,10:23:46 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ March 8th 2022,10:15:21 )
Let’s hope you’re keeping our data protected then. Eh?
That you can be sure of! :-)
And it was intended just to be a small exaggeration.
I took it as that, as my comments you picked up on were tongue in cheek, but you knew that, didn’t you?
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Quote ( Tianhao Chen @ March 8th 2022,03:32:48 ) Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 7th 2022,21:47:56 )
There is democracy in China.
I understand you are satisfied with your government like most Chinese (that I know) are, but China is not a democracy.
You can only vote for the communist party at the elections. It is impossible for you to remove Xi from power in an election.
China is a dictatorship. It may be economically successful, and the people may be satisfied to live under an authoritarian regime. But that doesn't make it a democracy. If you think it is, you dont understand the term "democracy".
The party stayed in power by killing thousands of proresters at Tiananmen in 1989. How democratic is that?
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Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ March 8th 2022,10:44:43 ) I took it as that, as my comments you picked up on were tongue in cheek, but you knew that, didn’t you?
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course... the "Eh?" was a clear indicator. My excuse now: it was a service for those who didn't know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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You tell here that this is just a game, scoring that the game world, including "activision, blissard and epic games" and so on, refuses to cooperate with Russia at the moment
The point is not whether all Russians agree with the actions of russia, the point is whether the leadership of gpro agrees to symbolically join in the condemnation of the Russian state for their actions and crimes against humanity
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Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 7th 2022,23:57:43 ) it's called victimblaming, nationwide at all
I consider victims Ukrainian people... but not only... also Russian all over the world and even all the rest of the world civilians who have to tighten their belts cause prices go up...
So no this are not the people I blame... More it would be politicians in EU, US, Ukraine and Russia.
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Information from Mariupol.
The Russians promised a humanitarian corridor for civilians. Instead, they began to fire at the columns, and, hiding behind civilians, went on the offensive. The deceitful insidious Russian army, which is covered by unarmed people.
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Russian police beat and tortured the girl after a rally against the war in Ukraine, according to her audio recording.
Source: audio recording from social networks
Details: The action took place on Sunday in the Moscow police department "Brateevo" after an anti-war rally in the Russian capital.
According to detainee Oleksandra Kaluzkykh, who released audio evidence, she was beaten on the legs, given the back of the head, doused with water, snatched the phone and thrown into the wall, grabbed by the hair, pulled, called and threatened.
There were two women in the room watching the torture.
The Kaluga family did not want to be released from the police department, and a lawyer was not allowed in. They were released in the evening, when this audio had already spread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DQT7-TniW4&t=302s
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Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 8th 2022,11:26:16 ) The point is not whether all Russians agree with the actions of russia, the point is whether the leadership of gpro agrees to symbolically join in the condemnation of the Russian state for their actions and crimes against humanity.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to see such full filled for a shitload of reasons. For one, GPRO always tried to keep any and all political discussion away from the game. If now even such a symbolic move would be made, that part of GPRO fundamentals would be out the door forever. Keep in mind that this particular thread already is an exemption to that rule, and if in doubt, again read the disclaimer on top and at the bottom of each page in this thread.
Quote ( David Andrewartha @ March 8th 2022,02:54:00 ) What I'm wondering is what's going to happen here? Is GPRO still accepting Russian supporter money and if so would that ever change?
Basically the same applies. More so though, as the SWIFT payment system is part of the sanctions posed, I would assume that at least the majority of the Russian ans Belarusian players will already (?) have a serious challenge to be able to purchase new credits. And as we seem to have some consensus that this conflict is not on the heads of the Russian civilian population, including the GPRO players, banning them one way or another would take away from this consensus.
We are allowed to discuss our views in here. From my POV it's just a bad idea to request any such ban. Regardless of my personal views and those I have been reacting to avidly in this thread, I firmly believe the game itself should not be tainted with political actions, such as banning or restricting access in any form. The idea that any such actions are highly unlikely to trickle through to the Kremlin, let alone to have any impact at all on RL proceedings is very far fetched ...
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