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Θέμα: Drivers Age |
29 απαντήσεις
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As Fernando Alonso signed up to Renault F1 Team at the age of 38 ¿Don't you think the game must change the rule of mandatory retirement at this age for all drivers?
Mod Edit: edited out full caps
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Provide a compelling reason
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Not the rule, the exception maybe ... luck of the draw.
Then again, time will tell ...
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Quote ( Juan Yelpo @ July 9th 2020,00:04:45 ) Don't you think the game must change the rule of mandatory retirement at this age for all drivers?
Where exactly does it state this ?
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I'd like to sign a 50 year old one day only to see how fast his stats will drop every race. Assuming he has any left at that point...
Did you put the title of the thread in all caps so all the old blind drivers could read it properly?
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Quote ( Juan Yelpo @ July 9th 2020,00:04:45 )
As Fernando Alonso signed up to Renault F1 Team at the age of 38 ¿Don't you think the game must change the rule of mandatory retirement at this age for all drivers?
Hi Juan. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this in the rules of the game.
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It would certainly be nice if stats did not drop off by 35 the way the currently do now...
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Quote ( Erik Harken @ July 9th 2020,03:25:17 ) It would certainly be nice if stats did not drop off by 35 the way the currently do now...
If stats didn't drop off, you would find it much more difficult to sign a driver over the age of 35.
Stat drop off is one of the primary reasons people voluntarily stop using a driver. This resulting dropping of drivers keeps the driver market alive (by providing both drivers for other people to sign as well as providing managers into the market to bid on other drivers).
Removing stat degradation would severely harm the driver market.
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 9th 2020,05:05:38 ) If stats didn't drop off, you would find it much more difficult to sign a driver over the age of 35.
Of course it would be harder the driver would be better after all.
Not to say stats shouldn't eventually drop but 35 is a harsh cut-off at times. Something like 37 would make it a bit more doable in terms of 'building' a driver over time. And I struggle to see that leading to any advantage over those who pay for an already developed driver.
Regardless, whether 32, 35 or 37 there would always be older drivers entering the market. The assumption that extended usability would somehow detract from the driver market is a bit nonsensical to me.
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Quote ( Erik Harken @ July 9th 2020,07:24:29 ) Not to say stats shouldn't eventually drop but
And do you think that the current figures are just arbitrarily made up or might there actually be some deep thinking and consideration put in them.
Or would you rather have Elite drivers with OA 300 :P (while master has OA limit of 160)
What would be the point if all elite drivers would have all attributes maxed ?
Currently the drivers do get something like 20 seasons (years driver age) to train and race, some even more years depending on the manager who is employing them at the time. And since the time isn't infinite, there will be differences between drivers
And then there's the market effects too
Quote ( Erik Harken @ July 9th 2020,07:24:29 ) The assumption that extended usability would somehow detract from the driver market is a bit nonsensical to me.
Then I fear you don't haven't considered all the implications to the big picture properly
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Well, in the 1950s, you had drivers who were like in there 50s competing, so, considering the retirement ages on the links provided, were would it state a mandatory retirement age?
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In football manager there is a stat called "natural fitness" that influences the onset and amount of skill deterioration. That's why Robbie Fowler declined in his early thirties and Zlatan is going strong at 38.
Is there a similar hidden stat in GPRO or is driver skill deterioration the same across all drivers (not including training)?
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 9th 2020,10:59:01 ) Is there a similar hidden stat in GPRO or is driver skill deterioration the same across all drivers (not including training)?
All drivers are the same.
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Quote ( Jack Wemyss @ July 9th 2020,00:05:50 ) Provide a compelling reason
The fact he wrote it all in caps was compelling enough for mine.
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 9th 2020,10:59:01 ) Is there a similar hidden stat in GPRO
Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ November 28th 2016,14:33:46 ) Quote ( @ November 28th 2016,14:27:43 )
Are there hidden driver attributes?
To shorten the discussion: no :)
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ July 9th 2020,12:50:13 ) Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 9th 2020,10:59:01 )
Is there a similar hidden stat in GPRO
Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ November 28th 2016,14:33:46 )
Quote ( @ November 28th 2016,14:27:43 )
Are there hidden driver attributes?
To shorten the discussion: no :)
Technically "gender" is hidden.
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 9th 2020,12:55:37 ) Technically "gender" is hidden.
But in the modern world there are no genders, just neutral peeps :)
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#19 Αναρτήθηκε 9 Ιουλ 2020, 14:03:49 (τελευταία επεξεργασία 9 Ιουλ 2020, 14:04:05 από Luke Frost)
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No way Alonso will perform as well as he did at 34 compared to 38.Same as drivers. Hey they could still be competitive if heavy training is given and they had a big enough skill advantage over the average drivers in elite, but it'd be a big ask to expect them to perform like in their prime. That describes Renault's situation perfectly btw :)
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ July 9th 2020,13:20:58 ) Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 9th 2020,12:55:37 )
Technically "gender" is hidden.
But in the modern world there are no genders, just neutral peeps :)
Touche
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ July 9th 2020,14:03:49 ) That describes Renault's situation perfectly btw :)
Not sure I agree entirely; perhaps also Fernando has a very big stat somewhere else, which might have an effect on the amount of sponsorship generated?! ;)
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ July 9th 2020,07:47:15 ) And do you think that the current figures are just arbitrarily made up or might there actually be some deep thinking and consideration put in them.
Or would you rather have Elite drivers with OA 300 :P (while master has OA limit of 160)
What would be the point if all elite drivers would have all attributes maxed ?
Nothing is arbitrary but things can be changed as they have before.
The highest OA driver in Elite right now is under 240. Adding 2 trainable seasons to the scope of all drivers on GPRO would not suddenly lead to “all” drivers in Elite at 300. We might get to see one or two sometimes but isn’t that the point? If a manager can achieve those figures then good for them. We’ve seen drivers over 270 even 280 before.
As for the market, there would surely be short term implications but eventually things would cycle back. Drivers would still get too old and re-enter the market with degraded stats; their managers would therefore need new drivers again. This would happen every season.
Imo more space to create competitive drivers would make the management side more fun and competitive. Imagine Jan Jasper and Roland getting to fight for 2-3 more seasons than they have. Tires, PHA, Money, driver energy, training- all these are still key ingredients.
It doesn’t have to be black and white like some are choosing to make it. Every driver wouldn’t be 300. Every driver wouldn’t cost $3mil per race. The driver market wouldn’t suddenly dry up.
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Quote ( Erik Harken @ July 9th 2020,07:24:29 ) Not to say stats shouldn't eventually drop but 35 is a harsh cut-off at times.
The stat drop isn't really a harsh cut-off, it's a soft one because the drop due to age is very small at first.
We already get 3-4 peak seasons out of the best trained drivers, and they're often still good for less ambitious use a couple more seasons after that. I don't think we need more, or it gets boring. Rep was already added to try to make it difficult to have too many great seasons with the same driver.
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Also if the objective of this move is to make Elite more competitive, it is not a lack of well-trained drivers that is decreasing competition. Finances, for instance, are a much bigger reason.
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Quote ( Harsh Sheth @ July 9th 2020,19:09:50 ) Also if the objective of this move is to make Elite more competitive, it is not a lack of well-trained drivers that is decreasing competition. Finances, for instance, are a much bigger reason.
Some good points! Curious what specific aspect of finances you are referring to or perhaps this will be crossing FOBY lines?
But yes part of the reason I’ve mentioned driver age is that it seems like many seasons lately are dominated rather than competed for. Then again not far off current F1 either..
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I'd say, just like IRL, there could be some rare drivers whose stats don't go awful after 35. Think of Fangio, or (having just watched "Ford v Ferrari" ;p ) Miles. (Or maybe Paul Newman. ;p ) They'd be hard to find, & probably harder to keep, with renew cost going way up.
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Racing in the 50s and 60s was a totally different ordeal than today. At that time, you didnt really have enough racing experience to race at the top level until you were much older. So experience really outweighed youth/stamina and those sorts of things.... not to mention the racing form of that era required a much cooler head.
Nowadays the landscape is completely different, drivers are gaining experience much earlier than in the past. Youth, quick reactions, stamina etc is much more important now than before because the youths are more experienced than even world champions in the past.
I havent looked at stats, but I'd venture to say that lando Norris has more time sitting in a racing car now than fangio did when he stopped racing. Verstappen definitely does.
Look at Kimi, masa, button, zchumacher.... all recent examples of older champions not able to keep up with the younger drivers.
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Quote ( Lorne Taylor @ July 10th 2020,01:51:32 ) Curious what specific aspect of finances you are referring to or perhaps this will be crossing FOBY lines?
Sure. I can't promise I fully understand why some seasons are more competitive than others, or why we have had a string of uncompetitive ones recently. Though one reason why it became more difficult to establish yourself and be more competitive in Elite was the introduction of energy. Energy made it quite difficult to have the consistency in results needed to regularly gain sponsors and earn money while simultaneously training your driver. Some overachieving individuals have done it, but it's not easy, I think :P And it is already difficult to gain sponsors in Elite in the first place even with the best of drivers :P
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 10th 2020,03:04:45 ) Racing in the 50s and 60s was a totally different ordeal than today. At that time, you didnt really have enough racing experience to race at the top level until you were much older. So experience really outweighed youth/stamina and those sorts of things.... not to mention the racing form of that era required a much cooler head.
That's true. Also, I'd agree the cars are physically harder to drive now (more gee loads, rougher ride).
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 10th 2020,03:04:45 ) I'd venture to say that lando Norris has more time sitting in a racing car now than fangio did when he stopped racing.
I don't think there's any doubt about it for just about everybody in open-wheel today. So many guys today start out racing karts as kids--& not just fooling around, seriously racing.
All that said, GPRO isn't real life. ;p Exceptions could be made, if the programmers were inclined--& if it didn't bugger something else in the process.
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Quote ( Lorne Taylor @ July 10th 2020,09:36:40 ) if it didn't bugger something else in the process.
That's the earlier point made though, a change to stat degradation would throw the driver market out of balance.
For one, it would make certain stats that are already very powerful in the lower leagues even more so.
Drivers being viable longer would mean more people would hold onto older drivers longer, meaning fewer young drivers are receiving training. A big yo-yo effect would happen (which happens just about anytime such changes occur ... such as DE introduction) whereas everyone would hold onto older drivers .... younger drivers would suck .... a few seasons later the mid/older drivers which didn't receive that training would all the sudden suck.... and it would seesaw back and forth for awhile before essentially settling on a middle ground wherein driver stats are lowers on average for any particular age group than they currently are. Meaning it would be more difficult to succeed in the ama/pro range with a young driver than it currently is.
In the end it would just create higher experienced drivers being in ama/pro with less training in other areas while most drivers reaching elite winning status would do so at a little bit later age.
Then there would be the few which trained a driver from scratch (likely involving multiple planned relegations) that reached elite winning status with a younger driver .... and then being able to hold onto that driver for much longer than they are currently able to do.
Too many things would go out of balance for absolutely no real perceived improvement in the game.
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