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Tema: "Live" qualifying |
322 odgovora
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ November 13th 2014,14:09:43 ) I took this suggestion as you would be able to see your Q time, but not anyone elses (except perhaps team members).
It wasn't intended as such, but it is an option. Now that I see by cup rival being qualified at provisional pole, I am all against hiding Q-times.
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ November 13th 2014,14:14:45 ) Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ November 13th 2014,14:09:43 )
I took this suggestion as you would be able to see your Q time, but not anyone elses (except perhaps team members).
It wasn't intended as such, but it is an option. Now that I see by cup rival being qualified at provisional pole, I am all against hiding Q-times. It's scenarios like these that your If-Then-Else solution fails. In the higher divisions, your grid spot number is less relevant than where your competitors are placed. Add to that different tyre suppliers, favorite tracks, OBPers etc and you simply cannot analyse anything if the times are hidden and it ends up being a hit and hope.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 13th 2014,14:12:44 )
I don't think you'd have your own Q time hidden. Just that of other people. /hu/QualifyStats.asp? ...... and here?
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Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ November 13th 2014,14:24:46 ) you simply cannot analyse anything if the times are hidden and it ends up being a hit and hope
So in the same boat as those in an "awkward" time zone then :p
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Would it really be hit and miss, be about luck as it were, or more about ppl not being able to effectively rely on the other ppl in their group to do the thinking for them anymore?
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In this case , I think every season we should open a special forum for the Elite Champion Along with all other group winners , where they can all thank the other competitors for showing their Q times and letting them win more easily, or simply do the thinking for them as stated above...actually , I'm coming to this conclusion that the best should thank the rest and God itself for not having to put out with all the other existential problems like time zones "handicaps"
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I love this idea. It would put a stop to people waiting until the last minute, seeing what everyone else has done and then deciding how they are going to qualify based on that.
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Thats the possible misconception Im speaking of. I'd be really curious to see exactly how many group winners/current leaders are the people qualifying late.
I dont think its remotely what so many are assuming.
I also wouldnt be surprised if Elites qualify late not so much as to see what others are doing but rather to hide what they are doing.
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Something we could do to keep the traditional system and more that qualify live, is takes time test laps and leave open how times q1 and q2 is today. And the times of q1 and q2 would be closed for the qualify lives can be uses.
In terms would take a notion to strategy as it is today and yet include the new method.
I agree that this method will end bonus for who do the qualify later
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BTW....
there is a simple solution for the debate...
Quallies can be kept hidden unless you click a button to unhide them. That way players who like the sound of a "live" qualifying process being played out can enjoy that benefit. And players who would rather not watch (or are unable to) can "just see the results" when they click the unhide button.
I mean...two birds, one stone...Those who really love the sound of live qually can then enjoy the drama unfold at their own free will :)
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Why don't we just make it that you can see others qualifying times prior to doing your Q but once yours is done you can't see your times?
That way the strategic options stay in place and those that want live qualifying get it.
Oops or as Stuart suggests above. I like how people are suggesting that as one option (supposedly) favours a minority that strategic option should be removed for everyone. Glad some of you lot ain't in politics!
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#192 objavljeno 13 Stu 2014, 16:49:21 (zadnji uredio13 Stu 2014, 16:49:50 od Hans Barf)
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ November 13th 2014,16:25:25 ) BTW....
there is a simple solution for the debate...
Quallies can be kept hidden unless you click a button to unhide them. That way players who like the sound of a "live" qualifying process being played out can enjoy that benefit. And players who would rather not watch (or are unable to) can "just see the results" when they click the unhide button.
I mean...two birds, one stone...Those who really love the sound of live qually can then enjoy the drama unfold at their own free will :) thats brilliant.... is it really that simple?
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And will the live qualy mean that the live race time get's pushed back?
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Quote ( Hans Barf @ November 13th 2014,16:49:21 ) thats brilliant.... is it really that simple?
Well,.... :) I didn't mean to code :/
But yeah..
somehow despite this idea "apparently" solving a time zone problem it does remove the chance for someone to out-fox as part of a strategy. This is the equivalent of in RL where a team is last to cross the line when the track might be evolving to its best condition. But in GPRO that evolution is being able to see more quallies the later you leave it.
As I said before, I support the idea, but I think those who want to see the results shouldn't be forbidden from having that option as a strategy.
BTW - just to put this out there about everyone assuming all australians/asians are at a disadvantage with the current system - does everyone in these regions have a working life that revolves around a 9 to 5 job then? Cos if they don't, and have a night shift work pattern, current system suits them fine.
I'm just saying that cos the matter of fact is that the time zone/deadline element of this game is not dependant on where in the world you are, but your own work/life commitments or constraints and it's unfortunately impossible to make it globally fair without removing strategy options that some or many players (however you view current trend of late qualifiers) stand to benefit over others (and not just europeans!)
:)
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So we don't see others Q times prior to our Q or do we?
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Well....I don't know tbh....I'm fine either way how it is. Right now I see my Q time and everyone elses and i'm ok with that. If I just saw my own I don't really mind that either as it's not that important for me (personally) as my risks for a race dictate my own strategy and not the choices others make :) So either having this idea or not changes nothing for my approach.
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I live in "wrong" timezone. The race starts for me at 2AM, qualifications end accordingly. Never yet ever missed a live race watching, while being a really busy person with working hours quite often till 8-9PM. Simply - I build my gameplay/strategy on late quali and observing the opponents, and I pay my price for it. That's how I try to defeat this game's "lottery'ness", as I'm playing against live rivals, not the server and his randoms. The suggestion just would add, in the name of mysterious "parity", more lottery style to the game, when it already suffers a lot from it. To those who plan to fix their life by constantly buying the lottery tickets in a hope to win $10M someday - this is perfect addition. Not for me tho.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ November 13th 2014,17:01:24 ) as my risks for a race dictate my own strategy and not the choices others make :) So either having this idea or not changes nothing for my approach.
That´s damn right mate ...And this is a fair point of view also for people with time zones issues...except for the last 8-10 hours before the race , they have plenty of time ,and usually plenty of qualified managers before them-at least 18-20 starting with Pro levels , to be able to estimate their package potential in the next race , make the best choices and take the chances they want...
It looks pretty pathetic for me to see so many people trying to make it look as a real handicap for the people who embrace the idea or just live inside this time zones ...this new created drama is nothing but a cheap movie in my book
I´ll go now and start my strategy calculations , based of course on the first 9 managers that already qualified in my group (pfff ) ...I need 2 hours or so , then I ´ll have a final chat with my team about our best possibilities for each teammate , and then I´ll go ripp off another piece of these innocent and helpless guys that still need to sleep and observ my ass moves in the qually to make a move for themselves...
Your idea with the on/off button seems good to me ...it doesn´t change my right to see any of the pre-race options , for thousand times, if I prefer so , instead of playing a silly game or do whatever people do inside the community...and btw ,I still wonder how many of these people whom are wishing for a "fair" late chance to observ the grid evolution ,actually spend more time playing silly games rather than trying to come up with a solid race strategy related to their packages...
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Quote ( Virgis Lyss @ November 13th 2014,17:04:53 ) he suggestion just would add, in the name of mysterious "parity", more lottery style to the game, when it already suffers a lot from it.
More lottery to the game? Woah! This escalated quickly. The lottery of the game is mostly the randoms. That's all. Basically, excluding randoms, the race is basically decided after R1.
It seriously baffles me that silly "the game will be a lottery" argument. Do you really guys think, disregarding that you are totally ok with the game being "a lottery" for people in certain time zones, that this implementation would shuffle things THAT much?
Actually, the very argumentation hits its own foot: so you tell me the implementation will make things horribly bad for you, whereas the current state making things horribly bad for some people is perfectly fine. :)
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,18:41:37 ) Basically, excluding randoms, the race is basically decided after R1.
Sorry , I find it difficult to see your point here...
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,18:41:37 ) whereas the current state making things horribly bad for some people is perfectly fine. :)
What did I say...cut it off guys , these people don´t miss a hand or both while the rest can play the wheels...where´s that bloody drama coming out of right now?
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,18:41:37 ) people in certain time zones Quote ( Stuart Foster @ November 13th 2014,16:53:36 ) the matter of fact is that the time zone/deadline element of this game is not dependant on where in the world you are, but your own work/life commitments or constraints and it's unfortunately impossible to make it globally fair without removing strategy options that some or many players (however you view current trend of late qualifiers) stand to benefit over others (and not just europeans!)
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ November 13th 2014,12:41:26 ) Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ November 13th 2014,12:32:14 )
I'm not saying it's not an advantage, I'm saying don't limit my strategies and make it a roll the dice kind of thing :{)
So you are saying it is currently a "roll of the dice kind of thing" for those that can't be online near the deadline? Great question. I'd like an aswer to that Shoaib.... Why do the ones that have to qualify early (because of personal life, etc....) have the lottery, and others still have the "advantage" to change their strategy later.
There has been said here that laptimes of others don't affect your own strategy, but you still want to be able to change things after you have qualified.... Why would you want to chance something? Yes, because you see the laptimes of others and want to adjust your strategy according to that. But it was just said the laptimes of others or not important, hmmmm........ So you don't need to change anything after you have qualified? I don't fully understand this.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ November 13th 2014,17:01:24 ) Well....I don't know tbh....I'm fine either way how it is. Right now I see my Q time and everyone elses and i'm ok with that. If I just saw my own I don't really mind that either as it's not that important for me (personally) as my risks for a race dictate my own strategy and not the choices others make :) So either having this idea or not changes nothing for my approach.
Fair comment.
The way this is going we won't see Q times so everyone will do Q on extra soft tyres and boom the games gone to pot! Those who are aren't as fast as the fast guys can't do anything about it without rolling a dice and leave the game.
I'm at a loss how a suggestion about graphical qualification turned into this mess.
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Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,18:56:17 ) What did I say...cut it off guys , these people don´t miss a hand or both while the rest can play the wheels...where´s that bloody drama coming out of right now?
I'm using the same logic most people who defend the current state of things are using: they said that a change would deprive them of important strategy possibilities, so it shouldn't be done, but they are completely fine with the fact that the current state of things deprive many people from said important strategy possibilities.
So you can't have it both ways. Either the advantage is negligible, so in that case why oppose the change? Or the advantage is considerable, so in that case why oppose the change?
You can grasp at straws by using the, in my opinion, very weak argument that you can tweak your strategy even after your qualys. I don't think that tweaking is that considerable. What will you do? Maybe extend or cut your second stint by a lap? Not a big deal. Or big deal? Well, that brings us to the same initial point: why the hell depriving that big deal to some people out of certain time zones?
Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,18:56:17 ) Sorry , I find it difficult to see your point here...
I meant to say L1. And that was regarding the wild argument that things would turn into a crazy lottery if the change is implemented. Which, again, hits the wall: why make people in unfortunate time zones susceptible to that supposedly crazy lottery?
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,19:32:23 ) So you can't have it both ways. Either the advantage is negligible, so in that case why oppose the change? Or the advantage is considerable, so in that case why oppose the change?
I oppose the change if I´m not allowed to see Q times any longer....especially if I can´t relate my strategy to the elite qually times and forecast conditions...Each season brings out more or just a few possibilities to take advantage even on a weaker package...this things I´m reffering to right now are DECISIVE factors for longterm strategies that need taking a great chance for a start...this things have nothing to do with this thread , it is pure data that a good manager can make a lot of use, compared to other managers...so I need to see this data and relate it to my objectives , at the right moment (during a season not a qually session)...
I repeat myself as clear as possible...maybe a few dirty words would make a difference:P....I don´t give a shit on the other manager´s race by race strategies...I take into consideration only their race potential at some point (not specific race, usually after first 2-3 races in one season) in order to be able to set some primary objectives for my long term plans..rest of it is all up to me and it will always stay like that
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,19:32:23 ) I meant to say L1
please spell that for me...it´s a shame I still didn´t get the point...did u mean first turn or what exactly?
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Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,20:02:18 ) please spell that for me...it´s a shame I still didn´t get the point...did u mean first turn or what exactly?
Ok. I will try to do it step by step.
1. Somebody said something akin that "this change will make things more of a lottery, as if the game wasn't already a big lottery", hence, assuming: i. The game is actually a big lottery now. ii. The change will get things even worse.
2. Hence, in regards to these 2 presumptions I said: i. The game is far from a lottery right now. Actually, not regarding the strategies. The lottery in the game is mostly related to randoms, which don't have anything to do with this thread. From the rest of the game, the races are, again excluding randoms, basically sort of decided after lap 1 (not as in actual exact outcome, of course, but as in the likelihood of outcome). But then, just for the sake of argumentation, I said ii. So let it be, let's say things get actually that crazy. Why is it ok to leave them that crazy for other people but it is ok to leave things fine for you, right time zoner and availability guy (and that includes me; I'm one of those guys)?
I hope it got clear now. :)
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Since people keep arguing about the extreme cases: either see the Qualy or not at all, I am still left wondering what are the cons for this solution:
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ November 13th 2014,16:25:25 ) there is a simple solution for the debate...
Quallies can be kept hidden unless you click a button to unhide them. That way players who like the sound of a "live" qualifying process being played out can enjoy that benefit. And players who would rather not watch (or are unable to) can "just see the results" when they click the unhide button.
I mean...two birds, one stone...Those who really love the sound of live qually can then enjoy the drama unfold at their own free will :)
That really does seem like a good compromise and everybody would win, or am I missing something?
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ November 13th 2014,20:08:56 ) 2. Hence, in regards to these 2 presumptions I said: i. The game is far from a lottery right now. Actually, not regarding the strategies. The lottery in the game is mostly related to randoms, which don't have anything to do with this thread. From the rest of the game, the races are, again excluding randoms, basically sort of decided after lap 1 (not as in actual exact outcome, of course, but as in the likelihood of outcome). But then, just for the sake of argumentation, I said ii. So let it be, let's say things get actually that crazy. Why is it ok to leave them that crazy for other people but it is ok to leave things fine for you, right time zoner and availability guy (and that includes me; I'm one of those guys)?
Got it now , thanks for your time
I should quote my favorite F1 driver after Grosjean ripped him off his third title (or at least highly influenced it)...there´s no way you can win a race in the first corner...
Gpro seems not much different to me...there´s no way your strategy and all the factors u put together , will help u win a race after lap 1, or keep your position safe...I will never give more than 10% benefits for the point that this thread is trying to implement, 90% split between other esential factors and data available for a certain track...And yeah , having won 10 positons at the start could do things go very wild, if your real potential doesn´t place u close to that position on the grid....I would need to open the FOBY section in order to make everyone (hopefully) see that aspect of the game...but it´s against the rules and it´s not fair play to this competiton ;)
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Quote ( Ceapa Florin @ November 13th 2014,20:26:34 ) I should quote my favorite F1 driver after Grosjean ripped him off his third title (or at least highly influenced it)...there´s no way you can win a race in the first corner...
Let's see the relative position among the best 8 managers in Elite for 3 stoppers and 4 stoppers in the last race after 1st lap and after the race ended:
4 stoppers
Final 1st lap 1 1 Monteiro 2 2 Sereno 3 4 Tzvetanov 4 3 Bobolis 5 5 Buhharin 6 7 Szopinski 7 6 Senler 8 8 Neves
3 stoppers
3 stoppers Final 1st lap 1 1 Postle 2 6 Demydov 3 4 Chernyshev 4 2 Caro 5 5 Manukalov 6 3 Mohamed 7 7 Petniunas 8 8 Nazaré
So I don't see any turmoil here. The only "weird" value is Demydov gaining positions during the race, but in reality that isn't any weird; those high staff and facilities guys normally gain positions in the races during the pitstops (same as why Sho lost positions in the race due to his pitstops).
But enough of an off-topic, this was just to show the supposedly crazy lottery of the races is far from true. :)
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Hmmm you couldn't have picked a worse group to try and prove your point as the lap times between those in Elite are generally quite close.
You should have used a Pro group but then maybe you picked Elite to prove the point the other way?
It's a lot more different when you are losing 2-3 seconds per lap behind the guy in front but you will know that already ;)
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