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Tema: Je suis Charlie |
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je suis Charlie
soutien aux familles des victimes
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Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ January 8th 2015,15:37:00 ) I didn't see your post, but as it seems it was a pic that didn't "discussed" intolerance but it was merely some kind of politics. Whereas I could agree with you that it is also an important issue, it is not really linked to this tragedy in my opinion. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise... Quote ( Heite Schaumann @ January 8th 2015,15:44:40 ) i explained it to the person who censored it, but i doubt his narrow mind is capable to get the sense.
My 2 words were intended in the satiric spirit of the brave people who have been killed
Since the discussion has moven on way beyond the point of offereign condolence I feel the need to repost the thing Heite wrote early in this topic, but I deleted:
Quote ( Heite Schaumann @ January 8th 2015) Free Tibet!
Me myself, I am only confused by all what has been written. Loads of semantics. But hardly any clue on what a person or a group should do when they are offended or mocked, over and over again, to the very core or what they believe in. Turn the other cheek? Legal actions? Burn a national flag? Make a cartoon? When it comes to believes there is little room for debate. Otherwise it would have been called opinions, not believes. So i think there is a limit to freedom of speech.
I hope in a few decades or so we can look back at things and see it all made perfect sense. But for now religion far too often goes hand in hand with lust for power, greed and fundamentilst views of economics - often driven by short term gratifications for the moment at hand by a small group at the expense of others. Examples are plenty.
yes - I have a very pessimistic view of mankind in general.
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Quote ( Samoeni Albanalopolis @ January 9th 2015,15:40:53 ) I am Muslim by dad side, half of Albania is as well the rest are Orthodox and Catholics. But the Islam we live it has a HUGE difference with Middle East. Some people think Islam is like it's happening in Middle East.
No, Islam doesn't tell you to kill. Killing is the biggest sin and it won't be forgiven by god as it is expressed it the Quran. Doesn't even tell you that women should be closed. Or shake hands. It tells only when a woman pray it's better to be closed in front of god.
This radical changes we see in Middle East are customary behaviors not religious. If you go a little bit up in Turkey you will see a very modern European country. But anyway, the thing is that this acts of terror from radical groups are becoming so usually. Before Al Qaeda now this new ISIS thing.
Well said. There are big compatibility issues between Middle Eastern culture and European culture. That is further compounded by economic and class divides. I believe this is extremely prevalent in France, with the immigrants unable to come to terms with the new culture.
Quote ( Hans Barf @ January 9th 2015,16:07:28 ) But for now religion far too often goes hand in hand with lust for power, greed and fundamentilst views of economics - often driven by short term gratifications for the moment at hand by a small group at the expense of others. Examples are plenty.
yes - I have a very pessimistic view of mankind in general. That's not pessimistic at all. Its just realistic. Religion, since the beginning of time, has been used as a political tool. Religious violence isn't new either. Also, it is absolutely no coincidence that terrorist movements take birth in places and locations where there is no stable political system. Now we can't discuss why these places and locations have no stable political systems, as that would be...political.
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I think Ricky Gervaise is one of the most underestimated minds in the world on this subject. (freedom of speach, and freedom of religion)
In 2 minutes 20 secs he sums it up beautifully: 100% agree with him. (and you dont have to be an atheist to do that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH3h9K0iAGg
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Quote ( Shane Ferguson @ January 9th 2015,15:02:52 ) Yes he did Jake
Apologies!
Quote ( Hamd Kazimi @ January 9th 2015,15:23:19 ) No one's understanding Jake here, he's here to condemn the attacks and at the same time makes his stand clear that he's not into supporting the paper and their works which are two different things which shouldn't be linked imo.
Quote ( Jake Stothard @ January 9th 2015,10:54:16 ) I never blamed the victims, I just said I didn't agree with their actions. I blame the people who shot them, I don't condone murder at all like I've said many times on this thread, however that doesn't mean I will suddenly support any murder victims work. I will not be repeating myself again on this thread as it is getting annoying how many people are accusing me of the same thing.
STOP SAYING THAT ARGH!
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ January 9th 2015,15:48:37 ) Quote ( Branimir Karačić @ January 9th 2015,14:41:54 )
You believe increased mocking of religions will contribute to reduce the possibility of new terorist attacks? And this is the best way of fighting terrorism?
The best way of fighting terrorism is nothing to do with continuing satirical cartoons or not; it's much more to do with massively broader issues that I can't go in to here without getting incredibly political.
But allowing a terrorist attack to achieve the goal it wanted can encourage such attacks so my view is as previously stated.
Then we dissagree about the goal as terrorist stated they want revenge for mocking their prophet, not trying to stop cartoons. I do not see printing more cartoons would discourage them to continue with their attacks. In fact I expect the opposite. So I would prefer this fight against terrorism go in other more efficient directions.
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Quote ( Branimir Karačić @ January 9th 2015,16:45:29 ) Then we dissagree about the goal as terrorist stated they want revenge for mocking their prophet, not trying to stop cartoons.
Have they actually said that? I wasn't aware that anyone had spoken to them and that had been said. But said it or not, I can't believe their aim was not to scare people in to not doing such things in the future. Is "revenge" part of their belief system?
Quote ( Branimir Karačić @ January 9th 2015,16:45:29 ) I do not see printing more cartoons would discourage them to continue with their attacks.
I never said it would.
Quote ( Branimir Karačić @ January 9th 2015,16:45:29 ) In fact I expect the opposite.
And you don't think seeing a terrorist attack "work" and be effective wouldn't encourage more such attacks in other scenarios where they wanted to scare someone in to doing something?
Quote ( Branimir Karačić @ January 9th 2015,16:45:29 ) So I would prefer this fight against terrorism go in other more efficient directions.
As I said, that's nothing to do with these cartoons though. It's a whole different matter, IMO (and is too political to discuss here).
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Terrorists have been downed !
God bless GIGN <3.
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#282 objavljeno 9 Sij 2015, 17:30:43 (zadnji uredio9 Sij 2015, 17:31:29 od Jon Day)
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Quote ( Mehdi El Fathy @ January 9th 2015,14:46:47 ) My point was that except French medias no one really talked about it And my point was, out of all the thousands of people they could have interviewed they chose him, He was able to put his point across and condemn the terrorists (not done in the name of Muslims etc) along with every one else. The media then chose to air the interview. They didnt need to but chose to. The fact that most havent mentioned it is because and probably rightly thats not really news. I/we would expect any individual regardless of religion to condemn the actions of the three terrorists.
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Quote ( Aymeric Gaurat @ January 9th 2015,17:29:55 ) Terrorists have been downed !
And hostages freed according to early reports.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ January 9th 2015,17:31:50 ) And hostages freed according to early reports. Lets hope so :)
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ January 9th 2015,17:31:50 ) And hostages freed according to early reports.
Also according to our medias all killers have been killed , and all hostages have been freed.
Such a good news .. I was really anxious today 'cause of this , was hoping all day for this to happen.
Let's hope it's the very end for this tragedy.
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The point for all French People, and for all Human around the world is "how to live better together".
We are all different but we are ONE. Same blood and same planet.
#WeAreAllHuman
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Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ January 9th 2015,16:16:53 ) I believe this is extremely prevalent in France, with the immigrants unable to come to terms with the new culture.
Anyone forced them to come to France? If you choose to move then you MUST come to terms with the new culture. Otherwise sit at home and keep burning different flags. Nobody cares.
Quote ( Aymeric Gaurat @ January 9th 2015,17:29:55 ) Terrorists have been downed !
Really? I heard brothers Kouachi got killed. Is this finish? So easy? How about Abu Saad al Ansari? Ah......You can't get him without stupid UN sanction......
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Black livery for the race today !
Je suis CHARLIE !
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Je suis Charlie
Black livery
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Other hostages at Montpellier, according to reports ... :/
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Using the black livery for this race to show my support, you're free to do the same to show yours :)
JE SUIS CHARLIE
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The victims and their families have my full sympathy but....
I am definitely not Charlie.
While I do not condone violence, and while I also support the concept of freedom of speech you do have to be sensible about these things.
If I stood in front of a bad tempered bouncer and repeatedly called him a james blunt I would expect to get punched.
I believe these very same offices were targeted with an arson attack just a few years ago so they also cannot say they weren't warned
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Thinking you can do what you like without any repercussions is stupid, terminally stupid in this case.
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Quote ( Matt Kasar @ January 9th 2015,18:31:29 ) I believe these very same offices were targeted with an arson attack just a few years ago so they also cannot say they weren't warned
To quote Charlie Hedbo editor in 2012: "What I'm about to say is maybe a little pompous, I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees."
Someone threatens you to stop doing something you believe in and you think that means you should listen to the threat and stop.
Reverse the situation. What if someone threatened the perpetrators years ago claiming their beliefs offended them and if they didn't stop practicing them then someone would kill them. They'd have "been warned". Should they have stopped practicing Islam because of that threat? Should they give up their beliefs and principles over a threat from someone with a different view?
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Matt, your speech is very very scary to me.
I cannot believe what I read
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I think that the problem is more related to the way media and government try to direct our "way of thinking".
The problem is not Islam or muslins or anything like it.
The problem is: bad people kill!
It can be muslins, from Islam or from ETA or from IRA or from any other "flag".
They don't kill because they are muslins, they are killers that uses Islam as an "excuse" to throw out their willing to kill. It is a "justification" = turn just something that it is not!
So, the problem is not about politics or religion or countries or anything like it.
the problem is: human race is in deep sickness! Terrorist attacks are just the "symptom" of that sickness.
I believe that man is not the product of the medium, but the medium is the product of man who inhabits it.
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I understand that as a concept, but I would question (personally you understand) the sense in doing it for a cartoon.
I'm not sure I'm allowed to state my beliefs regarding the sense in doing it over a religion either..... actually, as you are right here I'll do so an you can remove it if you deem it crosses the line, ok? I also think it makes no sense to do it over your imaginary friend so would think that to be equally stupid (edit away if needed sir!)
He obviously didn't though and unfortunately it came back to bite him
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#299 objavljeno 9 Sij 2015, 18:55:18 (zadnji uredio9 Sij 2015, 19:05:12 od Jon Day)
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Much respect to the French Police and citizens. Take no shit! Good on you. :)
Je suis Charlie!
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It wasn't meant to be scary Olivier, and in no way do I condone the actions of terrorists.
I just think the deliberate and consistent provocation of unhinged loonies isn't a clever thing to do
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