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Anketa Forumske teme
Would you like to see Double Accounts allowed within GPRO
Prijavi se da glasuješ ili da vidiš rezultate ankete
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Tema: Implementation of a Double account / Second Account |
86 odgovora
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Quote ( Michael Jones @ February 16th 2018,08:33:02 ) Michael Keeney you have still not given us your opinion .
- Michael just share the Agony of GPRO to find New revenues.!!!
...it's a Real problem which you refuse to see, (not random the New Liveries...)
...and I am very afraid that we will soon be called to give us the supporters the solution again.!!!
...the same axis (direction), had and my own proposal for the second account that preceded it !!!
Good Morning ...and try to see all the ICON.!!!
:)
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#62 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 09:08:57
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Or they will go on hankock with no money and screw up that group and retire.
If this will cost me my promotion I'm gone. Building up but against that you can't win never.
More a problem than DA's.
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#63 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 12:27:02
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#64 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 12:49:58
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I'm managed to find some time to give my input. I wanted to find out what the community thought on such an issue/suggestion.
So I've clearly not hidden my agenda when it comes to DAs. I'm not a fan of managers breaking the rules. However I'm not a huge fan of our legal system which is contradictory in a lot of cases as is. So a few seasons back DAs were given a 5 race ban which imo was way too lenient. This kind of confirmed that there is no way to truly stop DAs. I think from a lot of whats been discussed so far DAs are hard to detect.
I will always try and get rid of cheaters/DAs in the game. However it's clear that Vlad is losing the battle on DAs. Some think the game isn't ridden with DAs. I categorically disagree with this. However I said I wouldn't accuse or allude to DAs so that's not why I'm here or the reasoning behind this topic.
I spoke with Vlad recently in regards to a blatent DA. His response was nothing is looking out of the ordinary.
However I categorically know that this account and others is gaining or taking from other managers
-Money
-Promotion slots
-retention slots
-Sponsor progress / Team sponsor hording in some cases.
-data gathering
-better testing arena with multiple accounts.
-Increased enjoyment with 2 accounts. I.E main account is in ammy build/trainer driving mode so they use 2nd account to have fun.
Plus many others which I can't think of right now.
My whole reason for getting rid of DAs or having stricter controls is to essentially help newer members. There is a current topic going around retention rates and truthfully the main reason is advertising which is obvious but it goes without saying the game isn't increasing in numbers. Maybe we have hit a level where it can't go anywhere in the current game market. It's a browser game at the end of the day. The way it helps newer members is that DAs are not taking promotion slots in Ammy/Pro and in some cases Master. This all has a knock on effect down the tiers. Every single DA affects everyone but arguably Long time Elite managers.
So whether you would care to admit to how many DAs are in the game currently there is 100s of accounts out there. These DAs usually promote with ease out of Rookie, Amateur, Pro and then usually become unstuck in Master or are found out. This could be due to only being 200 managers so DAs stand out like a sore thumb.
So taking all of that into account. I was speaking to Vlad about an account recently. Mostly because Shadow wasn't doing a thing to appease my worries of said accounts.
Vlad has mentioned that with this being a browser game it's incredibly tough to know whether an account is a DA. Virtual ISPs etc. Unless he was to webcam every new member to verify passport etc. Which brings other problems. It's essentially not possible.
So we are at a bit of a crossroads and current DAs can continue to ruin the gaming experience. If anyone thinks they currently aren't then I seriously ask you to check out this seasons tables and come back to me with your findings.
So from this point there is 2 options and 1 of them is alluded to in the title of this thread.
Do we allow Double accounts or second accounts (Sound much nicer) So do we allow everyone to benefit from these DAs or SAs with rules.
-This has categorically shut down with 62.8% of the vote and I agree in an ideal world. But this isn't an ideal world.
The other option is to put stricter controls in place on top of what we currently have
-Time constraint controls
----I.e 30mins average per race (Minimum 34 races) and promotion into Pro.
Team, mailbox, forum posts, team forum posts
----If an account reaches Pro without a team, no messages sent on site, minimal forum posts, 0 team forum posts etc
-Account sign in date/time stamps
----Check time/date stamps of logins for accounts. If any 2 or more account login before/after one another more than 5 times.
-Family account checks
-----Stricter controls when family members sign up. Check social media accounts, attempt to speak to such accounts etc. (This would be incredibly difficult to check I agree)
-Team manager controls for admitting to team
-----Managers having to vet managers more in depth before accepting to teams. Granted this should be down to any decent team currently
So here's the shocker that will make a lot of you laugh. I'm actually with Vlad on this and we should be getting to the point of accepting a 2nd account with certain rules. I would be more than happy to pay for a 2nd account. However if Private leagues come soon then I probably won't care for a 2nd account.
The one suggestion I really like is having 2 drivers per account. This however as mentioned will change the whole dynamics of the game. This would probably be better set up as a different type of GPRO game. However Vlad has mentioned previously that a 2nd GPRO world is not possible. So you would have to change the current game quite a bit. I do actually like the idea of 2 accounts. Personally I would like to see us go down the fuel suppliers and forced use of compounds during races route.
So that's all a lot to take in. I'll await your responses.
Thank you to most of you who didn't turn this into a witch hunt or one of them normal DA discussions.
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#65 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 13:08:24
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TL; DR
Nah, just kidding, I did pay a superficial read ;D
Having checked myself several thousands of new registrations in the days of the Waiting List, I can assure you many of those controls you assume are not being done and class as stricter were already in place.
When it comes to DAs there's just a lot of unfounded assumptions, both on the magnitude of the problem and on what is being done. Have a little more faith in the admins, they've been doing this for several years and there's a chance they know what they are doing ;D
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#66 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 13:11:00
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So Michael, your thought is that even if one only has one PC, or laptop or whatever(for instance), he would still be able to have a second account?
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#67 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 14:07:36
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IMHO, DA hunting is practically an utopia.
You cannot stop someone that really wants to create a DA from doing so. Not even with asking to send a picture of a passport/ID card and of a credit/debit card on the same name, with the number covered (which would then create all sorts of issues of SECURING personal data). Besides it will turn away new players, because, let's be honest, if you see a random website game on the net asking you for that, you'd immediately move along.
Basically, in my opinion, going on that road will just create immense costs that would minimally reflect on the game revenue/environment. Sure you can catch those that are more negligent, but they will soon learn to improve and then you still won't be able to catch them. And thus you're back at the same place with just a lot of resources spent.
So, I'd just redirect those resources, including Mr.Shadow :P, into improving the game and creating new features.
Sure I am not saying that there shouldn't be minimal checks that require a small amount of time to be made. But those will just catch novices at DAs. I understand Michael has a big problem with this topic :P, but I just think there is no practical way to achieve this.
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#68 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 14:44:17
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I know I have said this before but.
If a DA has 2 accounts whats to stop him/her having 4 accounts if this is implemented?
With all the wifi gear available nowadays it must be easy to have more than 1 account each using computer /phone/ipad/tv to name just 4
We all know that the punishment DAs have got is laughable at the moment so unless this is changed DAs will never be stopped
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#69 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 15:12:15
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,12:49:58 ) Unless he was to webcam every new member to verify passport etc. Which brings other problems. It's essentially not possible. if this is made a compulsory requirement to enter Elite (as a starting step), it maybe can serve as floodgate to prevent the highest tier from being flood by DAs.
Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,12:49:58 ) -Team manager controls for admitting to team-----Managers having to vet managers more in depth before accepting to teams. Granted this should be down to any decent team currently I am sure DAs will have great difficulty to join any team that uses thing like WhatsApp, where team member can verify everyone's phone (country) number.
Also, idk how difficult/expensive it is for the game to have an automated system in place which will send verification code to new users via thing like WhatsApp, which at least can make sure new users have unique cell phone number. Just my 2 cents :)
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#70 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 15:17:13
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 8th 2018,13:48:02 )
So this week I have yet again hounded Vlad with suspicious accounts as I have done every week for the past 8 years.
:)
Seriously ? Nothing better to do, like play your own game ?
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#71 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 15:24:49
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Anyone here every play the original YRM game? I know some of you did.
For those of you that did - how did it feel playing against players who literally had hundreds of accounts that were essentially run by bots. I had nine accounts which I ran manually and it was soul destroying to race against opponents who hadn't even logged in for the race or at least they hadn't logged in themselves.
Whilst that might not seem relevant to GPRO the point is what happens when we all have the opportunity to have two accounts and someone wants more do we then all have 3, 4 or 5 accounts? At what point does it stop?
This is a niche browser game that requires all sorts of skills that need to be used over a long period of time to be successful. That's as much where the problem lies as anything else as it's not a quick win or an easy game to pick up and play and I love that!
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#72 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 15:31:30
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Quote ( Lyee Chong @ February 16th 2018,15:12:15 ) Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,12:49:58 )
Unless he was to webcam every new member to verify passport etc. Which brings other problems. It's essentially not possible. if this is made a compulsory requirement to enter Elite (as a starting step), it maybe can serve as floodgate to prevent the highest tier from being flood by DAs.
Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,12:49:58 )
-Team manager controls for admitting to team-----Managers having to vet managers more in depth before accepting to teams. Granted this should be down to any decent team currently I am sure DAs will have great difficulty to join any team that uses thing like WhatsApp, where team member can verify everyone's phone (country) number.
Also, idk how difficult/expensive it is for the game to have an automated system in place which will send verification code to new users via thing like WhatsApp, which at least can make sure new users have unique cell phone number. Just my 2 cents :)
Whats to stop a DA having more than 1 phone or even a phone with 2 sim cards therefore giving 2 phone numbers to sign upto Whatsapp?
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#73 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 16:47:19
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Having a second account for most members would counter 3, 4 or 10 accounts. I personally would use my 2nd account for fun and testing.
There is from my understanding very little that can be done to stop DAs. Therefore we allow members to have a second account. I for one would probably have that as a paid account also. Thats just my personaly preference.
I commit so much time and effort to my first account its incredibly stressful. A second account would make things more fun for me personally.
It would also allow me to test certain things in depth. What current respectful members could get from a second account would be huge imo.
At the end of the day if someone wants 3 upwards accounts then let them have them but put restrictions in place.
Either implement a way of having a second account or out stricter controls on opening an account or doing some account checks when things look hugely suspicious.
As someone alluded to before even with them controls we will still see DAs. People like to break rules.
And just for anyone thinking this is solely for myself it isnt.
Its to help the game and keep it healthy. If anyone truly thinks DAs arent affecting the game then I truly believe you're very naive. However its also true that ultimately DAs wont affect the very best managers. I also believe the very best managers respect the game more.
Have gpro ever attempted to have a DA amnesty? Allow members to give up their DAs without any sanctions but only if done on or by a certain date?
I do have a lot of faith in Vlad but its clear hes losing the battle in regards to what to do.
I believe in stopping cheats and I wont stop. I still report every DA I see and some get stopped and the smart ones dont. However ive noticed more and more arent being stopped. Hence why we find ourselves here.
Happy racing.
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#74 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 16:50:42
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ February 16th 2018,15:24:49 ) Anyone here every play the original YRM game? I know some of you did.
For those of you that did - how did it feel playing against players who literally had hundreds of accounts that were essentially run by bots. I had nine accounts which I ran manually and it was soul destroying to race against opponents who hadn't even logged in for the race or at least they hadn't logged in themselves.
Whilst that might not seem relevant to GPRO the point is what happens when we all have the opportunity to have two accounts and someone wants more do we then all have 3, 4 or 5 accounts? At what point does it stop?
This is a niche browser game that requires all sorts of skills that need to be used over a long period of time to be successful. That's as much where the problem lies as anything else as it's not a quick win or an easy game to pick up and play and I love that!
The one problem with this is that all the data is there for anyone that is smart enough. However how can anyone promote out of ammy let alone pro while never being part of a team? No forum posts? No mailbox posts? But yet has perfect strategies! Perfect driver training! 5 sponsors on board! Hoards of cash! These dont add up.
Its an incredibly complex game. So when these DAs in ammy and pro takes places it affects ammy and rookie so much.
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,16:47:19 ) Have gpro ever attempted to have a DA amnesty? Allow members to give up their DAs without any sanctions but only if done on or by a certain date?
Amnesty my ass lmfao. Ban them all!
I don't like the idea of having 2 accounts, but 2 drivers seems interesting... I think most people will just use the 2nd driver for training though -- that's what I would do. So wouldn't that be a waste of space? Just a bunch of people "exploiting" that feature in order to train drivers and keep them for a long time.
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#76 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:06:24 (zadnji uredio16 Velj 2018, 17:06:49 od Mark Wright)
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,16:50:42 ) The one problem with this is that all the data is there for anyone that is smart enough. However how can anyone promote out of ammy let alone pro while never being part of a team? No forum posts? No mailbox posts? But yet has perfect strategies! Perfect driver training! 5 sponsors on board! Hoards of cash! These dont add up.Its an incredibly complex game. So when these DAs in ammy and pro takes places it affects ammy and rookie so much.
I agree but is giving someone another account the answer? I would say that it's hardly been discouraged in the past with some of the 'punishments' handed out but that's not the point of this thread.
A two car team per account or two drivers would be interesting but that would also essentially double the advantage of having a DA I suppose.
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#77 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:15:02
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Keeney, i'm sure DAs affect the game. Not to the extent you seem to think, but i'll give you that one. They do have an effect. However, your measurements of what must constitute a DA are not really solid ones if you ask me:
-Time constraint controls
----I.e 30mins average per race (Minimum 34 races) and promotion into Pro.
This is a completely arbitrary measure. A decent player, playing by himself or returns with rekindled interest after years of absence can actually play this game with less than that. And be moderately successful.
Who are we to determine that 30 mins is the minimum play time to take the game seriously? If taking it seriously is even a valid measure. What about players that just want to goof around by themselves? Should they not be allowed to play?
Team, mailbox, forum posts, team forum posts
----If an account reaches Pro without a team, no messages sent on site, minimal forum posts, 0 team forum posts etc
Social features are a side dish to the main course: the game. I reckon there are many non-DA players that fit this bill.
-Account sign in date/time stamps
----Check time/date stamps of logins for accounts. If any 2 or more account login before/after one another more than 5 times.
What about two classmates who joined the game to race one another. Can they not do their setups at school, during computer class (is that still a thing?), at the same time?
Same goes for colleagues. You know how boring office life is? :D
-Family account checks
-----Stricter controls when family members sign up. Check social media accounts, attempt to speak to such accounts etc. (This would be incredibly difficult to check I agree)
This is a difficult one, and (i think) likely the most abused one (I mean, no one's really named Krusty Ridley, right?), but again: you can't just shut the door on any family/classmates/colleagues, just out of fear for DAs.
-Team manager controls for admitting to team
-----Managers having to vet managers more in depth before accepting to teams. Granted this should be down to any decent team currently
Agreed, teams should vet their candidates (are you reading Tiger?!? :D), but we can't turn this one around to block/detect DAs either. Someone who's rejected 12 times by a team may just be a twat, and not necessarily a DA.
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#78 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:17:20
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You'd have to balance the two cars out for promotion so you couldnt just train driver. There would a wealth of options available for strategies which would be new and fun. However that a new game model.
We'd still see DAs with that model. However just maybe not as many.
However thats a different suggestion.
I'm sure Vlad has had a lot of food for thought on this.
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#79 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:21:16
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I am completely against allowing two or several accounts on the exact premise that Keeney says he'll be using his for: fun (and testing). Doing this in any group where people are playing seriously and trying to promote with a good end result, as in those extra points for extra money in the next tier up, or to promote with what's needed, not much more, to save money, it will force them to not be able to play like that at all if 25-60% of the competitors are sometimes blazing through on a CT that has no forbearance on longevity at all. And it would be even worse for those on a tight budget and trying to retain by selecting the right race to push in if 25-60% of the opponents could at any random time decide to blaze through on a "test" CT with no forbearance on longevity and take those precious top spots and hindering the serious players from being able to have a chance at their goals. Even worse is being able to use this second account with abandon and purposefully use it to hinder the plans of other managers.
So NO, a second "play-test-experiment" account should not ever be allowed, and if it is it will likely break the game for me (maybe others too) and in all likelihood I would stop playing then, because of aforementioned points.
Any mention of "but everyone would be able to" is ludicrous btw as just because some might enjoy being able to ruin for others that does not mean I'd enjoy ruining it for others, that's not how I think games should be played. It's tantamount to having Enforcers in Ice-Hockey that on purpose try to injure key players in opposing teams, or in any sport simply take them out before an event in some way, injure, spiking drinks, aso. Not my idea of sportsmanship.
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#80 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:30:51
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Miel I put them as measures to check an account. Not that they were 100% a DA. Sorry if it came across that way.
Them measures were to check accounts that reach certiain thresholds or levels etc.
In regards to returning players. What you are essentially saying is a member opens a DA. Its against the rules. Any returning member should use their original account then that persons DA doesnt look suspicious.
I am trying to dictate what shows a DA. It was merely a suggestion. However no real manager can be successful with the following
-no team
-no mailbox messages
-no forum posts
-no friends on friends list
-whatever time per race.
Have perfect strategies
Win 10+ races in first season
Have a perfect driver
Perfect money
Amazing sponsors
I agree some of the above is possible but impossible to have all.
I also agree two friends,two brothers, two lovers should be allowed to play but not split personalities lol.
I am saying they should be allowed to play but I honestly think these accounts need more scrutiny.
The problem is its incredibly easy to have a DA under the current system. Hence why im suggesting we allow second accounts etc.
I categorically do not want genuine players banned or stopped etc. Hell no. But I do categorically want DAs banned or have stricter controls like the ones I mention. These would purely be measures that when an account triggers any of these like IP addresses do etc then an alert goes to GPRO and there is controls that a manager has to pass.
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#81 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:33:52
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Jody the irony is that what you have mentioned is already happening and has beem for the last 60 seasons.
Im trying to do something about it for the good of the game. Especially those managers who arent elite material etc.
Elite managers wont have a problem beating DAs. However midpack managers or part time managers will be affected heavily like they are.
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#82 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:38:01
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,17:30:51 ) I also agree two friends,two brothers, two lovers should be allowed to play
They sound like quite a pair. Do you know them personally? =]
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#83 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 17:38:50
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Double account or "second" account: no.
Control a second car: yes.
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#84 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 18:05:07 (zadnji uredio16 Velj 2018, 18:25:03 od Jody Parker)
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ February 16th 2018,17:33:52 ) Jody the irony is that what you have mentioned is already happening and has beem for the last 60 seasons.
Im trying to do something about it for the good of the game. Especially those managers who arent elite material etc.
Elite managers wont have a problem beating DAs. However midpack managers or part time managers will be affected heavily like they are.
There's no irony at all. Right now it might be happening but not at all to the extent it would if a second account was allowed. Even if it's as high as 5% in the game now the problems is far from as big as if 25-60% had double accounts. 1-3 people per group can be dealt with, handled, worked around, and will not completely ruin a strategy.
So, no irony and NO to two or more accounts. Still.
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#85 objavljeno 16 Velj 2018, 18:38:41
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Double account no, but if two drivers
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Dear, Michael Keeney!
Sorry. I do not translate English. :(
Madách Imre: Az ember tragédiája
"ÁDÁM: Csak az a vég! - csak azt tudnám feledni!
AZ ÚR: Mondottam, ember: küzdj és bízva bízzál."
(Translated by others because it is a huge play!)
Fight DA. Trust in trust.
Peace be with you!
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I'm with Keeney on this, also the idea of two drivers is bad (as is being talked about on the suggestions thread). The pool of decent trainable prospects is small enough as it is, anything that diminishes it further has got to be bad for the game in my opinion.
Edit: Typo
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