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Tema: [F1] 2009 Australian Grand Prix |
1409 atsakymų
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Quote ( Aaron Chew @ April 2nd 2009,12:27:45 )
1st race and Mclaren are already being penalised?
Why can't they leave them alone. Real question is - why can't Mclaren stop lying and cheating?
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Quote ( Aaron Chew @ April 2nd 2009,12:27:45 )
Why can't they leave them alone.
No just payback from last race of last year
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Quote ( Juhani Nopanen @ April 2nd 2009,12:29:07 )
That is what happens when you lie and cheat. You get penalised. Unfortunately not true:-( Think back last season... How many cheating acts by McLaren and hami and no penalties...
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It was about time someone put this guy into his place.. if it´s proved that he´s a liar, it´s well deserved... he can´t do whatever he wants... though I have to recognize that he did a very nice race...
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Quote ( Josh Brandon @ April 2nd 2009,12:31:07 )
Real question is - why can't Mclaren stop lying and cheating? Because they are unable to win without cheating
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Quote ( Nigel Davis @ April 2nd 2009,12:29:23 )
well i am sure they got what was coming to them, i just wish they could sort this stuff out at the race, during the race.
In the FIA defence they did have a lot to deal with at the end of the race.. and there is only so much time due to TV schedules
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Quote ( Gabor Kasper @ April 2nd 2009,12:33:00 )
Quote ( Josh Brandon @ April 2nd 2009,12:31:07 )
Real question is - why can't Mclaren stop lying and cheating?
Because they are unable to win without cheating
Any more of that flaming and you'll get a free break from the forums.
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the point is, its taken over a week for them to sort this out, its quite ridiculous, if the rules for safety cars were clear then none of this would have happened in my opinion.
There is always doubt about whether you should let the other car by again, and this isnt only a mclaren thing, its happened at other races to other teams / drivers.
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Quote ( Adrian Heath @ April 2nd 2009,12:35:18 )
In the FIA defence they did have a lot to deal with at the end of the race
That's why they lied. They wanted to make the stewards life simpler. ;)
Getting punished for being thoughtfull, pffft. :p
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Quote ( Steven Gray @ April 2nd 2009,12:39:50 )
That's why they lied. They wanted to make the stewards life simpler. ;)
who lied bar Mclaren or Lewis ... the FIA only had the info thay had at the time and the stories that Lewis and Jarno told them after the race.. this is not a lewis Bashing just simple fact.... its all there to be looked at so go over it all again...
Quote ( Nigel Davis @ April 2nd 2009,12:39:24 )
the point is, its taken over a week
I make it 4 days not a week.
Quote ( Nigel Davis @ April 2nd 2009,12:39:24 )
if the rules for safety cars were clear then none of this would have happened in my opinion.
100% agree with this tho... there are gray areas that need attention,
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Quote ( Adrian Heath @ April 2nd 2009,12:52:24 )
who lied bar Mclaren or Lewis ... the FIA only had the info thay had at the time and the stories that Lewis and Jarno told them after the race.. this is not a lewis Bashing just simple fact.... its all there to be looked at so go over it all again...
I meant Lewis and McLaren. It was a joke Adrian.
Jesus.
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Quote ( Steven Gray @ April 2nd 2009,12:57:03 )
I meant Lewis and McLaren. It was a joke Adrian.
Cool My bad then Steven sorry...
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"McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh denies that Lewis lied to the stewards, he says the team just didn't provide a clear enough explanation"
So they didnt lie, but they didnt tell the truth.
McLaren can gtf.
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Quote ( Adrian Heath @ April 2nd 2009,12:58:22 )
Cool My bad then Steven sorry...
No probs.
As a self confessed McLaren fan it's all i can really do. Embarrasing really, no defence for them this time.
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Quote ( Steven Gray @ April 2nd 2009,13:00:36 )
As a self confessed McLaren fan it's all i can really do. Embarrasing really, no defence for them this time.
:)
Quote ( Martin Carson @ April 2nd 2009,13:00:30 )
"McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh denies that Lewis lied to the stewards, he says the team just didn't provide a clear enough explanation"
I knew Mclaren would come out with a comment like that...
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Quote ( Adrian Heath @ April 2nd 2009,12:52:24 )
I make it 4 days not a week
ok, still 4 days too long if you ask me, guess i am losing track of time cos of work :/
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It is hard to tell what the rules are. As has been said before - the rules arn't all that clear, so its easy to be manipulated. I find it strange it was not mentioned about the degree of deviation between what was said, and what was aledgedly said.
I mean, by all rights and means - this could be another one of those things, where someone forgot to dot the 'i' and its been decided that they will be punished. But on the other hand, if the information given at the hearing was infact an attempt to manipulate the system, then bad luck McLaren, good luck in Malaysia. (But you have to feel for Hamilton in this, he was merely following orders - but rest assured he will be crucified by F1 fans, and the media alike).
*EDIT: Just found out how they 'mislead' the FIA stewards.
"The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date. I think (From a McLaren fan's point of view anyway) Its another case of not dotting all the 'i's.
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Mr Shadow should be in FIA, to make more fairplay there :P :D hyhyhy
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News just in; Hamilton has been disqualified from the 2008 season completely and Massa is now the reigning champion.
In fact, Lewis Hamilton now no longer exists after the stewards decided he had lied about the exact second he brushed his teeth on a wet Wednesday last year. They hadn't asked him this but he should have known they wanted to know!
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Quote ( Steve Smith @ April 2nd 2009,13:30:50 )
News just in; Hamilton has been disqualified from the 2008 season completely and Massa is now the reigning champion. Nice idea. Vote:YES
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Hamilton is really a poor bastard...
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Quote ( Ben Hodgskiss @ April 2nd 2009,13:11:34 )
"The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date. I think (From a McLaren fan's point of view anyway) Its another case of not dotting all the 'i's.
I think it's a matter of convenience: Hamilton did talk with the team about the pass, he let Trulli pass voluntarily, not presenting the tapes makes the stewards believe that Trulli passed Hamilton deliberatedly when he passed because Hamilton gave him a "go".
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Quote ( Jose Rodriguez @ April 2nd 2009,13:48:41 )
I think it's a matter of convenience: Hamilton did talk with the team about the pass, he let Trulli pass voluntarily, not presenting the tapes makes the stewards believe that Trulli passed Hamilton deliberatedly when he passed because Hamilton gave him a "go".
The fact of the matter still is, had the tapes been shown on the date, Hamilton would have either 3rd or 4th. But because he didn't show it on that certain date, he got last.
I dont know why you call him a 'poor barstard'. This had nothing to do with him, it was the teams that decided what took place - and the McLaren boss was out manuvered by the FIA and Toyota.
I still say good luck to Trulli in Malasia, and hope he does well (I know it was not at all his fault). Much the same as I realise it was not Hamilton's fault.
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Wow. Race all the way from the back and then put yourself back there. Nice work.
Pulling stunts like this while on double secret probation is not the smartest thing the Mc's have ever done.
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FIA fail. I dont like Hamilton, but he doesnt deserve that.
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Quote ( Steve Smith @ April 2nd 2009,13:30:50 )
In fact, Lewis Hamilton now no longer exists after the stewards decided he had lied about the exact second he brushed his teeth on a wet Wednesday last year. They hadn't asked him this but he should have known they wanted to know!
LoL The FIA mistaken Lewis Hamilton for Chuck Norris. Because he knows what your thinking, well before you have even thaught about thinking about it. I do understand why Hamilton doesn't exist. The brushing of the teeth removes food items(And weight) and if done after Q3 and the start of the race, it is easy to see why it would need to be monitored. New just in, We've seen car telemetric data, now its the new "lewismetric data", now the FIA can stockpile reasons to give him a big fat DNF every single time he steps foot in an F1 car :P hahah (Its joking for those who are sensitive) :P lol
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By the way, I lost overview under the penalties.... Button is still the race winner, right? :S
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Quote ( Ben Hodgskiss @ April 2nd 2009,13:53:47 )
I dont know why you call him a 'poor barstard'. This had nothing to do with him, it was the teams that decided what took place - and the McLaren boss was out manuvered by the FIA and Toyota.
Sorry you're right, my bad. My excuses :). To me he did a great job on sunday (me being a Ferrari fan), but his circumstances are not helping him. I feel bad for him
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Quote ( Jose Rodriguez @ April 2nd 2009,14:11:49 )
Sorry you're right, my bad. My excuses :). To me he did a great job on sunday (me being a Ferrari fan), but his circumstances are not helping him. I feel bad for him
Oh, haha I took 'poor barstard' out of context ! lol (Thaught you were being negative towards him). But now I see how it was ment :)
Ferrari had a bad weekend - but they failed hard last year Round 1 (and I think round 2) and still picked up their pace and reliability - and by the start of the Europe section, dominated (Would have dominated better if Massa didn't have so many unforced errors). So I say Raikonen for WC (Lord knows, Hamiltons not getting there this year).
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Martin Whitmarsh Speaks:
"There was no lie in that hearing," said Whitmarsh, who claims the team's error at the hearing was in not providing full information about a radio conversation with Hamilton instructing him to let Trulli overtake him.
"We, the team, made a mistake. We did not provide a full account of a radio conversation which we believe was being listened to in any case, and we don't believe was material to the decisions being made by the stewards."
Whitmarsh confirmed comments made by Hamilton in the immediate aftermath of the race that the team instructed its driver to let Trulli pass him.
Explaining exactly what happened after Hamilton overtook Trulli, when the Toyota driver ran off the track at the final corner, Whitmarsh said McLaren had been trying to play it safe.
"As we see it, what happened here is that during the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix, under difficult conditions, there was a safety car incident whereby Jarno Trulli fell off the circuit and Lewis [Hamilton] could legitimately pass Trulli. I don't think that is in question," he explained.
"Once that had happened, of course, the team could not see it. Lewis informed the team that he had passed Trulli – and there was understandably concern within the team that he had passed Trulli under a safety car.
"At that time, we did not know that Trulli was right off the circuit and Lewis was asked to give back the place to Trulli. That was a team view, having not seen it, and we thought it was the safest thing to do.
"Once that instruction was given to Lewis, he did not agree. He said: ‘Look, the guy was off the circuit, I didn't need to do this.' A discussion was occurring and before that discussion was finished, Trulli had re-passed. If we look at the speed traces at that time, and compare it to other periods behind the safety car, then Lewis did not do anything abnormal. And I think it is also quite clear that Trulli should not have re-passed.
"As soon as that happened, we then spoke to Race Control, to explain that and ask if we could retake that place. At the time, understandably Race Control was busy and they were not able to give us an answer. We asked several times, but clearly they were very busy. So we had to then deal with it. We felt it would be resolved by the stewards after the race.
"At the stewards' meeting, we mistakenly believed that the stewards were aware, Charlie [Whiting] was there, and the FIA was there, of that radio conversation. The stewards now believe that we were not explicit enough about that radio conversation, and felt therefore that that was prejudicial to the decision that they reached. Obviously we regret that, and that was a mistake by the team, but we have got to accept the decision that has now been made."
McLaren has decided not to appeal the stewards' decision, which promoted Trulli to the third place that Hamilton originally had in Australia.
Whitmarsh added: "I think it is a regrettable day, and the fact is, the belief is, that we were not explicit. But I don't believe that that information would have made any difference to the decisions and the deliberations at the time.
"It certainly was not a deliberate attempt. It is quite clear that the radio conversations are listened to by the FIA, they are open, and the FIA was present during that hearing. So in the opinion of the team representative, there was a belief that it was known and there had been a conversation with the FIA."
2 sides to every story. Still think its pathetic way to behave. 4th was good enough ffs.
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