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Тема: Make GPRO friendlier |
171 одговори
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ April 12th 2014,00:20:14 ) Ha ha, wow Kevin, he got you revved up enough to double post mate!
I already sent myself a PM asking me to try and avoid that :)
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 12th 2014,00:24:44 ) Was it a friendly PM?
Wasn't that friendly as it wasn't a first offence :/
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For me personally when i started the first i did was read every thing. Then the next thing was figuring out fuel and tyres and recorded every thing for reference. got some drivers to experiment with. Once i got fuel sorted more or less and the tyres. i then moved on with car setups all in all probably took 2 seasons.
i wanted to join a team by this stage but i wanted to get as much info and know about the game before i did.
After joining my team around 4 seasons ago i have managed to fine tune the info i have gathered and now still injoying the game as i did when i first started playing.
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I love GPRO :D
Let me know when it's time for the group hug.
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Hm,
I do believe more should be done to assist newbies in the very beginning stages of the game. Not by giving more information, but making the guides a more interactive process than just reading a large block of text.
Yes, I read all of it before I started my first race (some of it more than once), but that does not mean that everyone has, or even should be forced to. The current set of guides is not user friendly for a new player.
I am a big fan of the interactive introduction to the game. I think that it will not only make the builk of the information currently available in the guides available to newbies in a quicker fashioin, but that it will also make the first few days of playing the game more interesting.
I am sure someone can pull up, analyse and post the stats, but I don't need to. It is obvious the we lose a very large number of players before their 2nd or 3rd race. I believe a substantial portion of this group of people could be kept around a lot longer if they had more to do at the beginning of the game. I almost quit the game myself when I first saw the slow pace of it.
At the same time, I do not think that anymore information should be made available, than is already available. Giving out more information will only degrade what makes this game interesting for a large portion of players (the learning aspect of it).
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Yes, the noob guide should be changed if it talks about 2m rookie driver cost as anything other than scandalous. That's silly.
Everything else, figuring shit out is the game. If you don't want to figure shit out then play a game which is not about figuring shit out.
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Quote ( Louis Francis @ April 11th 2014,23:43:16 ) Look at your total money. Look at number of races per season. Look at possible income per race (for a new player).Considering those, its pretty simple imo. And I'm not even anywhere near a good player of this game...
Look at that, it's a huge hint. You start with $30 million ($35 million if you get the 17 race bonus). The rules spell out how much it pays for qualifying and finishing in various positions at each level, as well as for fastest lap. You know what your sponsor contract is, so figuring out how much money you have to spend for the season should be pretty straightforward. From there you know how much car parts will cost, how much tires will cost, and have a reasonable guess how much staff and facilities cost. Now you know how much change you have to spend on the driver.
Of course the one thing that you don't know for your budget is how much wear you will get from each race, but once you've run a couple of seasons you should have a pretty decent set of estimates.
Quote ( Joe Manifold @ April 11th 2014,23:33:05 ) Really, does it?
Yes, really. Surely with your experience and your team's history you have noticed this by now?
Anyway, you don't even need exact data to make a decent plan. At the end of the day, is there much difference between 96% wear and 106%? If wear is approaching 100% for a race you know that you'll need to swap out the part.
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Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ April 12th 2014,01:13:52 ) Yes, really. Surely with your experience and your team's history you have noticed this by now?
Yes I do, it was more in line with the whole sentence:
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 11th 2014,23:31:43 ) So we should tell everyone how to work out what the part wear will be for each track? And how it varies for car part level and driver and risk used?
Was a joke based on revealing FOBY information, and I was play-acting on Kevin suggesting to reveal stuff like that so had to post that as if that information was being revealed, suggesting irony but not meaning it in a serious way. :)
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Jordan I will get loads of of flack for saying this but most players I have privately mentioned this too quietly agree with me:
The top players and admins here are too set in there ways, they will NOT change as far as I can see any aspect of the game whether it would make the game more interesting or more realistic, people somehow seem to believe that things are more or less perfect, and it is almost pointless to have a "suggestions" section because from my experience and checking the boards from time to time anything outside the realms of the current mechanics of the game is abrutly refused rejected and dare I say riduculed, usually on the grounds that it is vastly unfair on the veteran players....as they have had to work out bla bla (i'm sure you get the point)
Cue loads of thumbs down on my post.........logically obviously :-)
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Quote ( Jos Vidal @ April 12th 2014,03:43:12 ) and it is almost pointless to have a "suggestions" section because from my experience and checking the boards from time to time anything outside the realms of the current mechanics of the game is abrutly refused rejected and dare I say riduculed, usually on the grounds that it is vastly unfair on the veteran players....as they have had to work out bla bla
That's very strange to me that you would say that. I've never seen someone use that as justification as to why a suggestion is bad. Most of the time the suggestions fall under a few major categories:
1. Suggestions that have been discussed and shot down many, many times.
2. Suggestions to make the game more closely follow Formula 1 rules, for no reason other than following the Formula 1 rules.
3. Suggestions that don't actually improve the game or fix an existing issue.
4. Suggestions that are based on an incomplete understanding of how the game currently works.
5. Suggestions that would have prevented an inexperienced manager from making the sort of mistake that they just made that they don't think is fair.
That said, there are some suggestions that fall outside of these categories like Luke's "driver salary cap" suggestion. It still doesn't seem like a popular suggestion, but at least it's getting a lot of discussion on both sides.
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Quote ( Phil Maunder @ April 12th 2014,00:49:31 ) Let me know when it's time for the group hug.
It's time, Phil. Everyone gather around so we can all hug.
The game should be much easier....How about we all cross the finish line together so we can all be winners? Just think about the warm fuzzy feeling everyone one would have...Makes me cry tears of joy just thinking about it.
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I feel you Jordan.
I think it just like real life, just try make friends and build your environment around people you like (in this case friendly people i guess).
sure i hate foby as well xD
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 11th 2014,18:38:08 ) If I was writing that piece I would be advising newbie's to not pay more than 1.5m a race, with a suggestion of 1m a race being an affordable budget, and with it stating that the more you attack races and the more salary you pay the driver, the more chance you have of running into financial difficulties.
I think it's fine to advise that much, since the Wiki already informs newbie's to not use more than 40 risks.
it should be altered with these advices, imo.
btw, I think a lot of people down-thumbed the OP their without hearing out the thread properly. To be fair, I think Jordan has given some good feedback on a newbie perspective...because what is sure is he is correct that the figures are not accurate - they are only accurate for an experienced player who knows which things effect what and the part wear of a track...all this is the blind leading the blind for a newbie is what needs to be remembered for these Wiki advices.
Newbie's will naturally and most likely already upgrade more parts than all other same level players, so it's quite important that the advice is correct on the wiki...currently it is not. So, down-thumbers of the OP should consider better what exactly they are down-thumbing...their own ignorance perhaps.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 12th 2014,11:33:55 ) because what is sure is he is correct that the figures are not accurate
The figures are totally accurate. There is nothing false about what the Wiki says, as has been pointed out.
However, that isn't to say it couldn't be reworded in a clearer way so as to not encourage people to happily spend 1-2m on a driver (although that's not actually what it tells you to do).
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 12th 2014,11:33:55 ) because what is sure is he is correct that the figures are not accurate
The figures are totally accurate. There is nothing false about what the Wiki says, as has been pointed out.
However, that isn't to say it couldn't be reworded in a clearer way so as to not encourage people to happily spend 1-2m on a driver (although that's not actually what it tells you to do).
But how much do you pay these drivers? Well as little as possible really
True
but generally the maximum you should pay is around $3mil salary (and that’s per race) otherwise you may struggle.
True, spending more than 3 million on a driver may well see you struggle, but spending 3 million is manageable in Rookie (it doesn't advise you to spend that).
A salary of $1mil to $2mil per race would give you a much better chance of completing the season without encountering money problems.
True, it would easily allow you to complete the season without financial problems, especially if you listen to the other advice in the Wiki. But again, it doesn't tell you to spend that. It says you should spend as little as possible.
So, yes, it could certainly be worded a bit clearer so people don't misinterpret what it says (as, despite it not saying what people have accused it of saying, it is evident that it has been misinterpreted by more than a few). But those saying the Wiki is false or telling lies are simply wrong.
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Don't offer your driver a ridiculous salary. The figure you are offering is per race, therefore anything over $3mil is going to make things difficult (although not impossible if you can handle your finances sensibly).
imo, that piece of advice. while I appreciate is listed at number 7 on the newbie top tips, It IS impossible for them to manage a season on that salary level.
How do you consider this to be a top tip? I don't....
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 12th 2014,11:57:01 ) imo, that piece of advice. while I appreciate is listed at number 7 on the newbie top tips, It IS impossible for them to manage a season on that salary level.
I've already pointed out, and I'm not the only one, that promoted in a first Rookie season while overpaying a driver - a salary of 3m in my case.
I agree that it shouldn't be listed as a "Top Tip" in the way it is. As Janne pointed out, the Wiki wording was changed on the "Driver" page previously. I assume that this "top tip" was not changed at the same time, although it essentially is saying the same thing so should have been updated alone with it.
Like above, it is not false, but it could be changed to be more user friendly.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 12th 2014,11:54:16 ) especially if you listen to the other advice in the Wiki.
disagree....A newbie most likely (and at best) is only going to read the newbie top tips in the wiki to begin with and go with that. Imo, it's wrong to assume they will read everything. Better to assume them to be an idiot and present top tips as being accurate and realistic from 1 to 10.....
don't you think?
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 12th 2014,11:54:16 ) (it doesn't advise you to spend that).
maybe not, but it's still there to be mis-interpreted as sound advice. That is not the newbie's own fault, it's also GPRO's.
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 12th 2014,12:01:30 ) I agree that it shouldn't be listed as a "Top Tip" in the way it is. As Janne pointed out, the Wiki wording was changed on the "Driver" page previously. I assume that this "top tip" was not changed at the same time, although it essentially is saying the same thing so should have been updated alone with it.
at last you agree on something hehe ;D :)
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Remember what had happened to the Dinosaur ?? ... they refused to change and adapt to the changing world .. they thought with their huge body they can survive the changing new world but alas no .. finally they died and extinct.
Just a friendly reminder to the game admins and those who had played this game for a long time ... please listen and take note all the newbies suggestions/problems/grudges. They are voicing their problems and expectations for the game. They are the new group of players from a different gaming culture that are different when you guys started playing this game. They are the new generation.
If this game wont change i'm afraid this game will be just like the dinosaur ... EXTINCT.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 12th 2014,12:23:46 ) This thread and the OP reminds me of this old gem /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=8891&Page=1
Ominous signs for Jordan Bell... :)
Post #25 is am excellent post in that thread! :)
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Yes, great post. However, it does highlight the lack of intellectual capabilities of your typical Crew member; two and three-lettered words are really not that difficult to spell.
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Quote ( Ai Lein @ April 12th 2014,12:16:36 ) Remember what had happened to the Dinosaur ?? ... they refused to change and adapt to the changing world .. they thought with their huge body they can survive the changing new world but alas no .. finally they died and extinct.
That's an interesting analogy but i don't think that's how they became extinct...
But I'm not expecting meteorites 10-20km in size to come crashing into where the GPRO servers are located ;).
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ April 12th 2014,12:41:56 ) Yes, great post. However, it does highlight the lack of intellectual capabilities of your typical Crew member; two and three-lettered words are really not that difficult to spell.
ok 2 mi it waz did look
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Before new players join they get directed to read certain excerpts right? Let's be honest...how many players here read EVERY piece of information - the rules, wiki, newbie guide, visit mentor forum - BEFORE they did a race? Less than 5% of the player population? I would say so. Then how many of them followed all those advices to the letter, without wondering what a little experimenting might do?
I'd say you're then getting onto less than 1% of players that join doing everything exactly as directed/advised.
That is the problem. Then those 1% of players are handed the chance to mis-interpret some of that information as being sound advice (paying 3m for a driver as one example). Then those other 99% of players that read the rules etc a few races later find the same mis-guided information.
This is possibly partly the reason why so many players do not make it past first base. I'm sure retention rate is much better than it used to be, but it can still be much better with a little more accuracy and thinking from the newbie's perspective.
I certainly fully agree with Kevin's first post in this thread that the forum is much more friendly and welcoming than it used to be...the mentor program and Flo's work really has helped make huge strides with the game (mention for Keri too, but Flo has been a huge inspiration in this game aspect). But also the community should be given a thumb-up for being far more supportive. Pat yourselves on the back for that ;)
The first thing a newbie does not need is wall's of text...just basic bullet point facts in front of them. The best you can expect of a noob is to read those newbie tips. So, maybe have them posted upon joining instead of a link to all those rules/guides etc. But they need to be more accurate for sure. 3m a race for a driver - a noob really has no chance - except that 1% of players who followed all advices and didn't use risks or smoked when money was running out. That leaves 99% of players with a problem then....so they leave the game as they are frustrated by 1) lack of progress 2) mis-guided information and 3) know-how.
Please, please can we get the information on these guides as relevant as possible, and have them better presented for the benefit of all the newbie's. Yes, 3m salary is do-able, but not for 99% of new players. Not even 2m. 1m to 1.5m is a much better advice for a salary for those 99% of players, and who knows, maybe it will keep them playing longer?
The game can only continue to grow by asking itself how to keep players playing for longer and wondering why they may not be. Not only that, but it needs it's community to be supporting it with ideas to improve things and understanding the frustrations of the newbie's rather than shooting them down or down-thumbing unnecessarily (this topic will surely have opened some eyes I think).
Don't down-thumb a guy just cos he mis-interpreted something as sound advice. GPRO is as much to blame for that.
cheers.
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As I mentioned above, there certainly could be some rewording of the Wiki, but is driver salary really that big an issue in Rookie?
While there are certainly those that pay silly amounts, they are already ignoring the Wiki altogether anyway to pay over 3million. I've just looked through a selection of random Rookie groups and most are paying drivers between 0.25m - 2m, and most of them are below 1.5m.
So, yes, making the wording clear to avoid being misleading on the salary issue in the "Top Tips" should be done (dealing with it now), but it doesn't appear that this is anywhere near the issue that some have made it out to be.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 12th 2014,13:29:31 ) As I mentioned above, there certainly could be some rewording of the Wiki, but is driver salary really that big an issue in Rookie?
When it is the only source of official written advice regarding salaries, yes it is that big an issue :)
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 12th 2014,12:46:09 ) Let's be honest...how many players here read EVERY piece of information - the rules, wiki, newbie guide, visit mentor forum - Dude i couldn't be arsed to read all this post, let alone all those other things you speak of! :D
So, all in all a point well made Stuart :)
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 12th 2014,13:34:44 ) When it is the only source of official written advice regarding salaries, yes it is that big an issue :)
No need to spread lies now, Luke.
The "Top Tips" is not the only advice (and it does need amended in line with the Driver section of the Wiki, which could be slightly clearer to avoid anyone being misled but, as explained, doesn't give any false information). I don't deny it needs amended. But most Rookies, by a large way, are paying reasonable salaries so it can't be that bad.
Also, the Newbie Guide gives advice on what salary is too much, and the Newbie Guide is probably more likely the first thing to read if you aren't going to read everything, don't you think? And it correctly says... But how much do you pay these drivers? Well as little as possible really. A lot of the time there may well be huge competition for drivers of this ilk, so you may be forced to pay over the odds to get them – but generally it is not recommended to pay much over $2mil salary (and that’s per race) otherwise you may struggle to continue upgrading your car come season end.
If you are going to get a driver in Rookie that is ready to score, so doesn't need trained, then you will pay over the odds at that level. But it still advises you to stay below 2m, which, on the most part from the groups I've now looked at, Rookies are doing. There are very few paying more than that for a driver.
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