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Topik: Make rookies in debt lose their driver at season reset |
388 balasan
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#1 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 12:40:22
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As the title says, make rookies who are in debt at the end of the season lose their driver even if the OA is not above 85.
There are a lot of managers in rookie who intentially get a negative balance in order to avoid promotion. The problem is that in rookie, unlike other divisions, there is no big drawback to the strategy. This distorts the standings in many groups a lot and unprepared managers are often promoted. The suggestion would fix that problem at least partially.
You could still train up a driver in rookie over several seasons, and even do the -15M trick to get rid of motivation, but you have to make sure that you end the season with a positive balance without getting enough points for promotion. In other words, this particular strategy would not be removed, but it would be made trickier and the negative impact on other players would be smaller.
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Wouldn't this make the driver markets in Rookie more stupid than they are now as signing a low OA driver to train up would not be as appealing?
Still possible, but not in the way it currently is.
Also, many newbies go in to negative unintentionally when learning the game and would be unfair to force them to lose their driver and could impact on retention of new players.
What about amateurs relegating with negative and a driver under 85oa?
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#3 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 12:50:12
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Nope, getting into dept is a tactic, I think it would be totally not good for the game
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#4 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 12:51:46
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It could perhaps work if it was over the 15m in debt that caused it. Then it would only be aimed at managers attempting to keep the driver by dropping motivation and keeping other stats higher than most rookies can achieve? I do agree with OP that it is unfair on new rookies when ppl who have already spent time in the game have the advantage of experience and an unattainable driver, for most new rookies.
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#5 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 12:58:42
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For some reason i read the thread title as "Male rookies in debt lose their hair" :|
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Agree with first speaker. Better that the rookies get prepared for promotion. Good idea Mikko.
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 3rd 2012,12:44:44 ) What about amateurs relegating with negative and a driver under 85oa?
That will not generate a surprise at end of season, so nothing that needs to be dealt with imo.
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#7 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 13:05:30
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I see the point but would it not disadvantage Rookies against those who are demoting from Amateur who can bring down a <85 OA driver?
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#8 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 13:06:29
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I like the intention behind the idea - to cut out unplanned promotions. But is it actually that big a problem? I don't think so.
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#9 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 13:09:40
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Disagree with the idea, it's part of the game, and there's nothing stopping unprepared players going into debt at season end to make sure they don't promote anyway.
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Quote ( Michał Kożuchowski @ September 3rd 2012,12:50:12 ) getting into dept is a tactic
Rightly said. Just because a manager has trained a driver in rookie for 2 seasons doesnt mean he/she will come to Ama and start owning, though there's a better chance of doing so than a new driver but not necessarily. if a manager thinks its worth staying in rookie for 3-4 seasons it shd be his discretion and not governed by such a rule.
Besides like Kevin said, there's no point making the game any more tougher at the very first level. New managers might get demotivated and leave.
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If "Rooker" don't want to promote, he need to use multi pit stops races to not gain pts.
Dislike.
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I quite like this idea actually...the problem of "super-rookies" is real. It potentially ruins the game for genuine rookies and it plays havoc with game stats. Making their lives a little harder gets a thumbs up from me :)
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Also think this is a good idea. The balance in rookie is way out, and it certainly puts new players off stayingu when they come up against another rookie mnager that has stayed in rookie for 2/3 seasons and trained his driver, they will never compete.
It will be much better for player retention
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I agree with the Welsh boys Sion and Keri
Make live harder of the ones who remain rookie for life.
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I think its part of strategies and those in top ranks went through this way. New rookies will get their chance next season when they learn this strategy. I personally didn't try this, but now a days getting good driver with low salary seems impossible from market.
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I agree with Jose, it's a tactic everyone can use, and for those new rookies it actually gives them a chance to collect some data and gain some experience. I had a very good driver (through luck) when I started playing and promoted in my first season only to find I was way out of my depth. That coupled with some RL issues caused me to retire for a season or so. I think staying in rookie while you train and are able to make the step up with a decent driver on a lowish salary is a good and fair tactic.
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ September 3rd 2012,13:41:32 ) I think staying in rookie while you train and are able to make the step up with a decent driver on a lowish salary is a good and fair tactic.
It is....but it's also open to abuse.
There are quite a few players who just keep the same driver season after season with no intention of ever leaving rookie whom a genuine rookie has little chance of beating...Jan Roca being the most famous example but there are several other ones currently active.
I don't regard winning for countless seasons in rookie by continually beating the new players as something that the game model should encourage. Ok, so this plan could also hurt genuine rookies looking to promote the following season so perhaps it could be improved upon - but the "Jan Roca" problem does need sorting in some way.
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But this will make promoting rookies less competitive rather than more competitive when they get to amateur? As well as making the amateur driver market as nasty as the rookie driver market is today?
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ September 3rd 2012,13:47:26 ) There are quite a few players who just keep the same driver season after season with no intention of ever leaving rookie whom a genuine rookie has little chance of beating...Jan Roca being the most famous example bu there are several other ones currently active.
I agree with that. Some guys doing it to get tick on that achievement list. But we should consider genuine attempts to train driver and retain driver for next season as a part of strategy.
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Now that is something I don't get.... a desire to stay indefinitely in rookie to keep beating noobs
It takes all sorts! (going to look up jan roca now)
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ September 3rd 2012,13:47:26 ) I don't regard winning for countless seasons in rookie by continually beating the new players as something that the game model should encourage. Ok, so this plan could also hurt genuine rookies looking to promote the following season so perhaps it could be improved upon - but the "Jan Roca" problem does need sorting in some way.
While we have to say to each their own to enjoy the game in whatever way they see fit I do agree this is a problem. But also we need to cut some slack to what I call the genuine super-rookies. Ie experienced players resetting to come back stronger who meanwhile just can't help but be dominant due to their experience with the game.
What I would put forward as a fix is a compramise;
we need some logic in the drivers contract which can see when the driver is getting intentionally bumped to be retained. We could say if this happens to the driver twice then a 'P' appears in the contract for the third season (similar to the 'R' for retirement & the 'S' for impending retirement. The 'P' can denote that the driver will terminate the contract if he does not promote that season).
realisticly one 'build' season is enough for rookie-resetters. At the most two build seasons and in the third you get yourself to ammy or loose the driver. It puts the pressure on slightly I admit but I think its a good compramise between managers building a driver for strong promotion & others just perpetually joy riding.
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i think that it is a good idea, but think that it would be hard to get the balance right, between the managers that are going in debt on purpose to those who have not worked out the money side of the game. As there are a few managers in rookie (one French manager jumps out but i cant rember his name or rookie group) that just seem to stay in rookie and clear up by winning nearly every race then go into neg as not to get promoted. Which can also hold back managers that want to promote. Could there be a special request not to promote, just like the request to go back too rookie.
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Maybe losing the driver if you are in top 3 and in negative would be better to prevent doing a Roca.
Just negative hits also the genuine newbies who realise too late that the OA has gone up and the only way to get it down quickly enough is going into negative.
EDIT: Also it would be quite unfair for someone who is 5th that when 2 above goes into negative he would either need to promote or lose his driver.
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Though i havent personally tried it, i think in select cases the idea may be good but in the overall picture i dont think its worth it.
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ September 3rd 2012,14:00:32 ) Maybe losing the driver if you are in top 3 and in negative would be better to prevent doing a Roca.
This ^^^ but how do you stop someone simply re-signing the same driver the next season?
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If it was me, the rule I would write to go with my suggestion would be this;
if your driver experiences 2 seperate instances of you going -15m into debt within the duration of his contract. He will issue an ultimatum to you declaring he will leave his contract if you do not promote by the end of the current season.
hope that helps what I mean? Its confusing I know :\
Quote ( Mark Wright @ September 3rd 2012,14:03:21 ) This ^^^ but how do you stop someone simply re-signing the same driver the next season?
yea good point. Maybe if the driver has issued an ultimatium then his motivation doesn't drop the 3rd time you try & crash it. So even tho you go -15m it stays at 200+ ... or whatever
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ September 3rd 2012,14:03:21 ) This ^^^ but how do you stop someone simply re-signing the same driver the next season?
Why would you want to? And he'd have competition for his signature in a driver market anyway, if he's any good.
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ September 3rd 2012,14:03:21 ) This ^^^ but how do you stop someone simply re-signing the same driver the next season?
Nothing. But he is in the market for everyone to sign with a great record, so he won't be too cheap. And someone who is going to retire could just buy him out with 25M if someone starts trying that.
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#29 dikirim Sep 3 2012, 14:08:37 (terakhir disunting Sep 3 2012, 14:10:14 oleh Mark Wright)
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 3rd 2012,14:05:08 ) Why would you want to? And he'd have competition for his signature in a driver market anyway, if he's any good.
Well what's the point in stopping the Rookie bashers keeping their drivers if they are just allowed to sign them back the following season.
Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ September 3rd 2012,14:05:49 ) And someone who is going to retire could just buy him out with 25M if someone starts trying that.
How often would that happen. What's to stop the Rookie basher simply paying whatever he needs to as he has no intention of promoting ;)
P.S. I'm not convinced that 3 seasons is the right number. Signing an OA 60 driver may take 3 seasons to train for Ama before he is competitive in Rookie without running crazy risks.
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So what about people who smoke the last few races in a season, same sort of thing is it ? if you are saying this for rookie what about the other groups ( The Super ammy ) where people live and make mills and win loads then smoke to keep driver etc same thing in my eyes, your aim is to beat the competition if that (Super Rookie ) is in debt at end of season he cant promote giving up his spot to some one else, witch if this Idea was to go a head it would not happen,
A poor group teach's sweet F A, a good group you learn how to be competitive,
Rookie is fine the way it is IMO so is the game don't change nothing
I think its good manager management, if you can train a dude in rookie and keep him under the 85 OA doing the training etc its a job well done
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