| Thi' Captain Spake |
Jabb'r: GPRO World Cup |
's many 's 620 answ'rs
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ May 26th 2023,23:13:08 )
Perhaps someone should start hosting it as a Silly Game....maybe I'll consider it...if people want it.... Its a good game!! But we all can see Jasper doesnt care it anymore or maybe cant take a little time to get it up.
We could re born this game next season, with new ideas and necessary a new name for the game like: world cup of the world ;)
Sebastien Xavier Stuart Ricardo we have lot of people who could take the new version of the great game created by Jasper!!
Thanks for all Jasper and let s go on
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I agree with Mauricio.
Gpro World Cup is not just a silly game, because it's in the "Miscellaneous" section for a reason. That is why the fact that the game now seems abandoned to its fate by his creator is not like many of the games on the forum, where the same thing happens but there is not so much fuss.
Therefore, a revival of the same game in the forum games section for the next season, with a single or shared host, would be a good idea to continue with this game.
But, if Jasper show up and that it's been only a short lapse this season and he'll be in full swing next season, then we all must to be permissive and understand.
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Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ May 27th 2023,04:12:37 ) I'm not according with you @Ricardo Antunes (A42)
Take à nation if no manager is also in the rules (if i remember well)
My table is just the réflection of accurate results on the site, i'm not recompiling something from nowhere...
This table is just made for à réal compétition overview, while waiting for @Jasper Coosemans (E) correction.
Nothing else, i'm not running any other silly game, just this one, with all respect for Jasper
Sorry if it was unclear, I didn't mean to say tou were being disrespectful, just talking about the official aspect of your table!
Obviously I do hope Jasper comes and approves it or fixes the one on the website.
Quote ( Henri Dormann @ May 27th 2023,07:41:57 ) @Ricardo Antunes (A42)
The problem that Patrick mentionned is that the draw was totally ridiculous.
Belgium was the best team up to that point and was eliminated despite having no opponent. The least you can do is follow your competition when you set one up. Don't turn the tables and say that it's the players who lack respect. Sébastien is absolutely right to want to finish the competition and keep it going in the future, especially as Jasper hasn't reacted for weeks.
I never said the players lacked respect. Except if we're to create a parallel silly game, then I think we would be lacking a bit of respect, yes. Yes things have been shaky for a few seasons but this is the first one where Jasper is completely absent and it's too soon to think about hijacking the game from him IMO. If we can find a way of asking for his permission and he says yes then that would be a different story. As someone who is extremely active in the forum games section I've seen games abandoned a lot of times and picked up by other people and it was never this fast. Even with abandoned games it is courtesy to ask the former host if they're ok with you picking up their concept. Don't forget that this is still Jasper's game, irrespective of him being here or not, it's not everyone's game, as you weren't a part of its creation.
And my point is retracted about people without a nation asking to manage theirs but still, you've put yourself in that position knowing full well Jasper hasn't exactly been the most active in here for a couple seasons. It's almost like you asked for it. No lack of respect, just I'm not too surprised that sort of thing happened. Just apply in the correct time so that the nation can have a manager. You can even set an assistant if you don't have time.
And Xavier, it is "just" a silly game. It's in the silly game forum. The only difference would be that the admins added a link to its website in the main page, that's what would set it different from the rest. Obviously the World Cup and cooperating with literally your entire nation makes it have a different scale but that doesn't mean we should just bypass the rules of common courtesy. This isn't even the biggest silly game in GPRO so it seems silly that it gets special treatment from people IMO.
Lets for now enjoy the game as it is and if we see Jasper fully abandon GPRO, publicly abandoning the game or showing signs of abandonement for the next season as well, then I think it makes sense to revive the game (don't forget to give Jasper credit when you do so). Right now it feels like hijacking and I won't be a part of it, I won't cooperate or participate in such project.
This is an unique opinion for sure but given I'm a very very active member of the silly game community I think you shouldn't just discard it as silly and consider what I'm saying.
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Ric, don't fool yourself or us, this game is not a silly game like the rest. Yes, as you say, the only difference is that it has a link on the Gpro page. Unique but abysmal difference I would say, only this difference makes it very different. That right was earned, I fully agree, if now it does not meet expectations it is normal for there to be complaints and solutions are sought.
The best thing, and what I think everyone expects, would be to hear Jasper speak for himself.
edit : And I add.. If it is just a silly game, as your said, then I don,t see any problem someone can clone the game, not taking the game itself, creating a new one based on this game. We have enough cases this happen in other silly games, as you like to name them
Edit 2: it would have been more unfortunate if the game had been dying due to neglect and nobody had said anything. As it is happening it is a demonstration that it is a good game and it matters to some users. I would be happy that people care to know what is happening.
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Xavier I do understand everyone's frustrations, don't get me wrong. But I do think you're being too rash.
As for examples go, I can give you a grand total of 0 games that have been picked up this soon after the host gave signs of inactivity. It has never happened. Most times something like that happens the host is retired and long inactive or they have been asked if the game could be revived and they gave a green light.
But OK, even assuming that you'll go ahead with this, do you think 1 host is enough? How do you plan on doing this? Do you think just having a separate thread will fix things? Once you do that, then for sure the World Cup becomes a game just like any other. People are very passionate about this game sure, but other people are also very passionate about other games.
Stuart is a great host, he has great presentation skills. Without wanting to be disrespectful to him though, he doesn't have a track record of finishing games. A bit like Nate. So to be safe, multiple hosts would be needed to help Stuart.
Who, apart from Stuart, and also that is advocating for this new game, has the presentation skills required to host a game like this? Who, apart from you and Stuart, has ever hosted a silly game? I fear that if you rush into this, you'll make a game that will look extremely barebone and unappealing for a lot of people. And it would be mega unofficial too.
If you really want to do this, I suggest a lot of preparation. This season and the next, invest in presentation. Gather a hosting team, "mentor" those who have never hosted a game before to host a game. By the time you're ready, either Jasper will be back and the problem will be solved the best way, or enough time has passed and as such you could take over without it being an issue.
This is a tough game to host. One of the toughest I'd say. I hope you're mentally ready to go through dozens of race summaries and tallying up points from different nations every 3 days. And the results need to be out ASAP as well. With all that in mind, devise a plan, devise a team of multiple people as well because otherwise that project is as good as doomed.
Don't rush into this is all I'll say. Obviously people do treat this game as some kind of holy grail which I don't agree with but understand so if it is really that important to you, go for it. But PREPARE ADEQUATELY.
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I deny the major!. I do not advocate presenting this game. As you say, it requires preparation and time, and I'm really going very fair about it. ( I was joking in post #467) ;)
It's fine with me if another host wanted to and Jasper is happy with it. I also don't think it's that much work in the current game, because possibly a lot of the data is downloaded directly from the web and it's a fairly automated process.
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Something to keep in mind!
First, it would be good to have some word from Jasper on his thoughts on him keeping up the game, it's his after all! As we all (should) know, RL sometimes comes up with a surprise card thrown at one, out of the blue ... However, the goo thing is that he's still racing!
Secondly, the game is created off-site so it can do most of, if not all, the calculating stuff automatically! Redoing this as a Silly Game through the GPRO Forum, brings a tanker load of work to be done by whoever would be hosting it, alone or team wise ...
Choose your battles wisely!
If, and I clearly state IF Jasper is not able to keep the game up for what ever reason, it would be best to take over the off-site pages as they are today. That would make it a whole freaking lot easier to keep it up moving on into the future ;)
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Quote ( Xavier Porta @ May 27th 2023,13:13:31 ) I deny the major!. I do not advocate presenting this game. As you say, it requires preparation and time, and I'm really going very fair about it. ( I was joking in post #467) ;)
It's fine with me if another host wanted to and Jasper is happy with it. I also don't think it's that much work in the current game, because possibly a lot of the data is downloaded directly from the web and it's a fairly automated process.
Well the best thing would be to find an automated process as well. Honestly if there were a few tweaks to Jasper's website then the game could run by itself. The only issues really are the KO phase, the fact that managers can't press a button to manage their NT when the elections are over and also the inability to remove an inactive player from your permanent roster. Those 3 issues if solved could just make the game run by itself barring any unforseen issues.
Making an automated version like Jasper's website that also implements this would be the best choice. But as you can imagine, building a website for that is not easy at all. There's scripts to be made, you need to collect data, all that stuff.
If you don't make a website which is probably what would end up happening (though with Sebastian willing to help maybe that would be possible) then you still need to post updates every round and collect results manually. Unless you manage to find a way of directly fetching data from a Google Sheets, for example.
For those who have never hosted a game and want to jump head on into this, know that passion is not enough to host a game without issues. Do not underestimate preparation. All the good silly games you see require an immense amount of effort even with all the passion you see. I know that, and I struggle a lot in that so much so that I have 2 big games that I couldn't continue / begin even though the concept was IMO really great. So you need to be ready to put a lot of time and effort into hosting this.
And if you want this to be a permanent fix (which might be if Jasper never returns) you need to get yourself ready for the fact that you'll need to host this game for years. So just get yourself mentally ready for that and work around that thought.
I really do not want to see a big project like this being shut down after a few seasons because people did not know what they were getting themselves into.
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In the nexts weeks i will be on France with more time to work on my new implementation of GO
I've previously think on a silly game management on this site. I think it's time to really work on it !
I don't think you are disrespectfull @Ricardo Antunes (A42) But you can't says that results are the one of the site when we clearly see they are false.
Next round with this teams seems more interesting than we can see on official site !
I've purposed my help to @Jasper Coosemans (E) But nothing happens, then it's time to re-host the game, without forgot his work !
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Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ May 27th 2023,15:56:54 ) I don't think you are disrespectfull @Ricardo Antunes (A42) But you can't says that results are the one of the site when we clearly see they are false.
Next round with très teams seems more interesting than we can see on official site !
Yes, I'd very much rather that the results you showed would be on the website. I hope I made that clear!
I know I'm coming across as a bit disrespectful trying to shut down people's efforts but I just want people to realize the magnitude of what is being proposed here.
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To be fair guys, Ricardo Antunes (A42) has a point. First, I think it would be correct that if Jasper has been approached about the continued administration of the game then to at least give him the chance to respond, in good time, maybe before the season is out. I think it’s reasonable on both sides to do that, because if he doesn’t respond by then, for me that’s a clear indication that the game is not in his interest anymore. It’s better to do that than anyone to just take things on themselves, certainly in my mind would be forum etiquette.
When Kevin stopped hosting SRS, Nate took it up for a short while, without complaint, and then Steven Rose after him, but on both occasions it was with hosts blessing. I’m not saying you should wait forever for Jasper to do so, but I think it’s reasonable to at least give him some time to respond. I don’t think a game should be kept on hiatus though just because an incumbent host maybe doesn’t respond. The correct approach would be for the players to agree to someone proposing to take it on in that event, and for it be continued with an agreed format or whatever, rather than someone just taking up the reins without either consent or player approval.
I have an idea for a game using GPRO results based on two old games I hosted before GPRO World Cup was even a thing and I might have a proposal of my own, but I’d need to think about it as I’m on the verge of starting something else, and Ricardo makes a good point also about not underestimating the time it would take to gather the results and manage this game manually.
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Yep I'm with Ric and Stuart on this - we need to hear from Jasper first.
Equally, if this isn't continuing using the website then I reckon the GPRO World Cup should be replaced on the home page with the Forum Games Database...but that's just my opinion.
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Quote ( Florencia Caro @ May 26th 2023,23:46:49 ) Why am I being tagged, @Julio Pereira (P18) ?
If there's anyone !! who could restore the truth, it would be you.
unfortunately you can't.
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 27th 2023,12:38:23 ) Stuart is a great host, he has great presentation skills. Without wanting to be disrespectful to him though, he doesn't have a track record of finishing games. A bit like Nate. So to be safe, multiple hosts would be needed to help Stuart.
Appreciate the first part of this comment.
if you'll allow me I'll present you the full list of games I've hosted (except the first two when I was newbie and those games were extremely shocking ones). So...starting from the first season I hosted Pick your Favourites ten years ago.... I would like you to comment next about the second part of your post. Some games I didn't finish because they were probably too big and I had a busy RL, but some didn't finish because of participation or simply due to retirement which I did so twice. Please don't confuse "track record of finishing games" with the fact that, actually, it isn't that, I host many different or new games rather than churn out the same game on repeat.
You might be shocked with this list....I hope so....
COMPLETE :
Feb 2013 - Pick Your Favourites S1
Apr 2013 - Pick Your Favourites S2
Jun 2013 - Pick Your Favourites S3
Aug 2013 - Fast 5's beta
Sep 2013 - Pick Your Favourites S4
Nov 2013 - Fast 5's S1
Nov 2013 - Pick Your Favourites S5
Jan 2014 - Pick Your Favourites S6
Jan 2014 - Fast 5's S2
Mar 2014 - Pick Your Favourites S7
Mar 2014 - Need For Speed [S0]
Jun 2014 - Finish For Old F1
Jun 2014 - Max's Football 3's S1
Jul 2014 - Pick Your Favourites S8
Aug 2014 - F1nish 1992 Season
Aug 2014 - World Cup Sweepstake
Sep 2014 - Your Country Needs You
Nov 2014 - F1nish S3
Dec 2014 - Grand Prix Manager S1
Dec 2014 - F1 Selector 2014
Jan 2015 - Pick Your Favourites S9
Feb 2015 - F1nish 1993 season
May 2015 - Grand Prix Manager S2
Jun 2015 - 2014-15 Football Sweepstake
Aug 2015 - GPRO SSX (Beta)
Dec 2015 - F1 Timing Game
Dec 2015 - Club Foot S1
Dec 2015 - GPRO Rivals
Jan 2016 - Grand Prix Manager S3
Jul 2016 - GPRO Road to Euro 2016
Jul 2016 - Grand Prix Manager 2005
Aug 2016 - Club Foot S2
Nov 2016 - Phormula 1 GP S0
Dec 2016 - F1 Selector 2016
Jan 2017 - The Big 5 FIVE S1
Jul 2017 - The Big 5 FIVE S2
Sep 2017 - GPRO Forum Game S1
Nov 2017 - F1 Selector 2017
Dec 2017 - [USFC] CL Challenge (S63)
Dec 2017 - Fantasy Football 7's S1
Dec 2017 - Alternative EPL S1
Aug 2018 - GPRO Sprint Series S1
Aug 2018 - Football Guru S1
Oct 2018 - Football Guru S2
Dec 2018 - GPA Manager S0
Jan 2019 - BDO World Darts Challenge
Mar 2019 - Fantasy 7's NT Manager
Apr 2019 - GPRO Sprint Series S2
May 2019 - Fantasy Football 7's S4
Jun 2019 - GPRO Sprint Series S3
Oct 2019 - Football Guru S3
Dec 2019 - Elite League Football S1
Jun 2020 - Elite League Football S2
May 2021 - Neowm! S0
Feb 2022 - Pick Your Favourites S10
Aug 2022 - GPRO Eliminator S1
Oct 2022 - FGCX GPRO Eliminator
Oct 2022 - GPRO Elminator S2
Mar 2023 - EFL S1
Apr 2023 - Elite Prediction Game S0
May 2023 - FGCXI Elite Predicition Game
INCOMPLETE : +(reason)
Nov 2013 - F1 Betting Game (beta) (own fault)
Apr 2014 - Tracksuit Manager (beta) (own fault)
Oct 2014 - Max's Football 3's - S2 (own fault)
Mar 2016 - FastTrack WRC S1 (own fault)
Oct 2016 - Grand Prix Manager 4 (own fault)
Dec 2017 - Formula One S1 (GPRO retirement)
Jun 2018 - F1 Team Manager S0 (lack of participation)
Jan 2019 - GPA Manager S1 (own fault)
Jul 2019 - Football World 2019 (own fault) (completed by Jon Beagles)
Nov 2019 - Football Guru S4 (own fault)
Dec 2020 - Fantasy 5-a-side (GPRO retirement)
Jul 2021 - Neowm! S1
Apr 2022 - EFL Manager (own fault)
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I make that 61 completed games, soon to be 62 and taking out participation of players or my own retirement from those on the incomplete list, its 10 incomplete games. In 10 years mate. And that's including Football World 2019 that was eventually completed (thanks to Jon). Which means 9 in reality.
Please explain your comment @Ricardo Antunes (A42)
And if you think i'm a sad case for compiling this list, its probably because i'm proud of my hosting (at large) and take quite an offence, and hope you can understand why, when you actually view this list. 61 completed games and you say i've a poor track record of doing so. I think maybe only one or two others completed as many in the whole of the GPRO community. That is not to be big headed at all, but I certainly think you've little realisation of the many hundreds of hours that went into all of this.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ May 27th 2023,23:11:35 ) I make that 61 completed games, soon to be 62 and taking out participation of players or my own retirement from those on the incomplete list, its 10 incomplete games. In 10 years mate.
Please explain your comment @Ricardo Antunes (A42)
And if you think i'm a sad case for compiling this list, its probably because i'm proud of my hosting (at large) and take quite an offence, and hope you can understand why, when you actually view this list. 61 completed games. I think maybe only one or two others completed as many in the whole of the GPRO community. That is not to be big headed at all, but I certainly think you've little realisation of the many hundreds of hours that went into all of this.
Nono, I'm a sad case. I remembered your Neowm game and I made that comment. For the record that wasn't meant as a criticism of any sort (I have a way worse track record so it would be hypcritical of me to mean it as a criticism), it was just to illustrate one person hosting a project like this wouldn't be enough. I'm really sorry that I made that comment without re-checking things first.
My main point was that whoever hosts this needs to ensure the maintenance of this competition for a long duration of time and of all the people I've seen advocating for this so far I think you're the only one suitable. I had a wrong idea of you which makes you even more suitable but I still think you'd need backup because it is a big ask.
Sorry again.
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 27th 2023,23:18:46 ) I'm really sorry that I made that comment without re-checking things first.
Its ok, but comments like that irk me cos the amount of incomplete games is actually very few when taken into context the length of my involvement here and the actual number completed. Reading it just made me sound like I was the Frank Lampard of forum games.
My idea is to use a format close to a game I ran before called Your Country Needs You... Jon might remember it and it was quite popular. It was football based scoring for "goals" scored using GPRO results from players in your squad. The squad sizes differentiated as I recall though which meant different multipliers were applied depending on the team size to make it fairer for smaller ones.
What I would do is make it a 5-a-side game.
Goals scored would be 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for top 8 finishes among your national team in GPRO (same as nations cup only takes from top 8) then add the standard tier multipliers of 1, 0.8, 0.6, 0.4, 0.2. Potentially adding a random factor on top of that, which I actually liked about YCNY. And that would or could involve either some Finish posting or giving people credits to use for their nation team during each phase that would add to their goal tally in a SRS-esque style. The maximum number of goals wouldn't go above 9 since the goals from GPRO would be no more than 10 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 (one elite win, second place and 3 master wins) + 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for the non-GPRO factor.... giving a maximum of 52 then divide that by 6 (the number of scoring factors) and voila 9 is the most goals you could score (8.666 rounded up).
As for the format... I would personally choose to stage races only on Friday's because during the week I am working so for me it would be pretty difficult to keep up with. Sunday and Monday is my day off so thats why for me hosting games based on a Friday / Weekend deadline works best. I like the nations league format, and think it'd be cool to have a 3 (stroke 4) tier system. 6 in each tier, with the top 3 in Tier 1, Top 2 in Tier 2, and Top team in Tier 3 moving into a Super 6 stage to determine the winner. You wouldn't need multiple rounds of GPRO races for the result because a single race would determine it. When the Super 6 is played, Tier 4 comes into existence and the bottom 2 teams of tier 3 and up to 4 new entrants contest for 2 places in the next season. The game would basically need 10 races of data in this format. So, could still be completed in a season, would just have to maybe use one Tuesday race in the middle...perhaps at the crossover point from league stage to super six. I could handle one Tuesday in a season, or maybe at least with some assistance for it.
Now, the above is a forum game, not an idea to replace this game...but it was a game I enjoyed hosting before, and I do like the idea of a Tiered league around GPRO nations. I think it'd be quite neat. And also, better than a tournament because the better nations play each other firstly, and gives smaller ones a chance also. I like it anyway :p
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Actually it’s a lot less work once down to the super six / T4 play off anyway so wouldn’t be a problem. I think I’d be within my right to host this as a forum game anyway (if enough people liked the idea) just on the basis I hosted YCNY before their was GPRO World Cup…
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Yep absolutely agree you could host that game - it's different enough and your YCNY hosting confirms it :)
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Would it be fair that initial Tiering is based on the Nations Cup points totals from this season? (depending on which nations were present of course)
Also, while priority should go to home nation managers to 'manage' a nation, would it be fair/ok to otherwise allow non-home nation players to manage a team? It happens in RL after all...
That way, it means more of the best nations would be present. Not that it matters if say @Keith Partridge (P24) really wants to manage Wales (he probably just wishes my flag still showed it :P).
I might actually do this cos I think it'd be quite fun. And rather than finish posting for the random factor, i think giving people say 500 credits to "spend" per round of the game, for a nod to the SRS lovers. I think that would be acceptable... Finish posting is too reliant on activity (as good and fun as it can be).
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Quote ( Xavier Porta @ May 27th 2023,10:13:26 ) Gpro World Cup is not just a silly game, because it's in the "Miscellaneous" section for a reason.
World Cup is on Miscellaneous for having covered all countries. There were other interesting silly games that didn't make it into that category and were left in threads.
I think now is the time for the World Cup to come back to a thread
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I like your game idea Stuart. Definitly do not have a Finish aspect on it please, it would not fit the spirit of the game at all!!!
In other news Jasper has fixed le stuff. Thanks Jasper!!!
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I've contacted Jasper 1 or 2 days ago,
It could be possible for me if Vlad is OK that i also manage the site if needed.
We will see
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ May 27th 2023,18:07:18 ) in good time, maybe before the season is out Im agreed with it, maybe wait to the end of the season.....
But really I dont think anyone could feel bad about continue a game, its just a game, I know he spent lot of time on it. But in someway its something to be proud, we love what he did, and want to continue doing
Edit: I dindt read all the post before posting.....things are better I can see....
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I've started registrations for Your Country Needs You (S2) here : /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=29284&Page=1&E=1#scroll
You are all welcome to take part. The game builds on the previous season of the game that was hosted almost 10 years ago, but I removed the finish posting aspect, replacing it with an SRS-type non-GPRO event.
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World Cup . no truth, no story, too bad. error between greece and switzerland, can no longer be corrected.
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I just remembered about the election process for next season, it looks like it hasn't opened it yet. Jasper, can you open it whenever it is possible? Thanks in advance!
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I'm waiting for @Jasper Coosemans (E) to eventually gives me keys to help him in management.
While we are waiting, send me a PM for candidacy, deadline 20/06/2023 19:00
I will publics at 20:00 candidacies list and will be opend up to 23/06/2023 for your country vote (if multiple candidacies)
Then we can start just after préparations for New season.
I'll create management system during this time if Jasper don't reply.
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Did Jasper agree with this, and with your help in the PM you previously said you sent him? It's not very clear as per your previous post to me, sorry
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