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Wątek: [Mafia] How I Met Your Mother (GAME OVER) |
5502 odpowiedzi
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Alright, so this is my case on Sebastian, in chronological order:
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 11th 2020,20:13:33 ) I know the joke phases and all, but maybe that wasn't a joke after all? And maybe kirsty would be valuable to us so suggesting to lynch her would be good for scums?
This quote comes from the beginning, when he was addressing my joke vote on Kirsty. I didn’t think about it as too significant at the time, but looking back on it now knowing that Kirsty flipped mafia I think it’s quite possible that this was an attempt to pressure me off of my joke vote and raise some suspicion against me by an inexperienced player buddying Kirsty. He was also voting Kirsty at that point but I don’t think that changes it, if anything it just makes it a little more suspicious.
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 12th 2020,16:12:36 ) I maybe wrong and excuse me if I post something completely stupid, but could it be that Sudeep has some knowledge (like a detective check) on Jasper and his accusations are like that cause he doesn't really have anything solid so far on him and doesn't want to reveal that he's a cop but want to lynch the scum right on D1? Of course take for granted that I don't know his or any of your playstyles so I could be completely off here...
Now we’ve got Sebastian doing some fishing. Why would he want to know this exactly from a town perspective? If Sudeep did have something and chose not to reveal it, then highlighting it is obviously very dangerous. Obviously scum would want to know this and it seems to me like Sebastian may be trying to use his inexperience as an excuse, looking at how the post starts. Tim ends up confronting him about it and a follow up post, and Sebastian responds about the follow up post:
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 12th 2020,23:09:18 ) Not my intention this time, just sayin'
Seeming to imply that it had previously been his intention in the original (the one I quoted).
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 17th 2020,07:28:50 )
( Andre de Carvalho @ March 17th 2020,07:19:09 )
Seb is a muppet, i get it. So the 3 stoges are together? And boy, those skimmers should be banned shouldn't they. They just get everyting you said and throw it in the trash can like if this was just a 'point your finger' game.
FFS!!!!! How the hell you're not even trying to accept ANYTHING that contradicts to your think process?
And with that said I'm expecting a big wall post and the big campaign of VOTE SEB NOW!!!!! If it doesn't happen I'll be sad...
Also, just for how stubborn you are:
##unvote George
##vote Andre
And here we get Sebastian voting Andre just because he’s stubborn!? Sure it might be true but I don’t really see how it’s lynchable. Or is this suddenly in reaction to Andre having called Sebastian a muppet in the post above and is OMGUS even though Andre didn’t vote Sebastian. How is this helpful to town here? But if this wasn’t scummy by itself, what ties into it makes it scummy:
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 17th 2020,18:43:45 ) I'll use the same excuse as Sudeep did when voting Riley I believe in #968 - as noone wants to vote Andre I will switch to Sudeep - both of them seem to be SO sure to lynch Riley and even TELL OTHERS that there's no other way to go in D1, and I really don't get why at this point...
##unvote Andre
##vote Sudeep
He’s now moving his vote from Andre to Sudeep off of the connection that they both still want to lynch Riley. This is despite never stating this as a reason he was voting Andre in the first place and never adding that as a reason after doing so. He additionally has not explained why he thinks this is particularly scummy behaviour and has not addressed the issue that unless he thought Andre and Sudeep were buddies, at least one town was practicing such behaviour. These elements combine to give the appearance that Sebastian didn’t have a genuine reason to vote Sudeep and instead voted him merely to move towards the lynch of someone he knew he wasn’t aligned with.
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 20th 2020,15:00:27 ) Well based on the description I am sure psychotrooper exist in this game...
On D2 now. Here Sebastian makes the claim that he’s sure a psychotrooper exists in the game while it was being discussed that psychotrooper might not fit into Jasper’s puzzle. He then proceeds to add in the next posts that it’s “if he understands it correctly”. I asked him about this and he responded in post #1958, in which his defence is that it’s a way more complicated game than he has ever played and that he now isn’t sure about it. To me it seems like he knows more than he is letting on (could be deceiving of course) and is trying to backpeddle on what he has said, again using the lack of experience excuse.
And finally we’ve got his reaction to Riley, suggesting it would be suspicious if he’s still alive past today while also speculating on types of protection in the game. Given that who scum kill can be WIFOM, especially if there is protective and certain tracking roles involved, and scum knowing that leaving someone alive may draw suspicion to them, it’s very hard to know what may or may not happen. So to try to sow seeds of suspicion about Riley still being alive does not sit well as a town thing to do with me, at least wait until tomorrow when we might actually have a chance of piecing together what happened on N2.
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#2131
Take note of the timing of those two quotes regarding CC’s and their times. The first was made in #1243, and the second occurred in #1250. Both in the lead up to 9:00 CET on the 17th.
I then don’t revote you until #1310, which is nearing Midday CET. I even said at the time, I had a think about everything and during that time I debriefed and didn’t feel good about your claim, despite what I had said in #1243 relating to non-role items. This in part, was Andre’s comment lodging itself in my brain and its ramifications of it playing out in my mind. Furthermore, note literally everything I have mentioned regarding vote counts at the time.
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Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ March 23rd 2020,13:11:17 ) What do you find "not fantastic" about my play? I’ve mentioned it already at the time, but that CT stuff was really irky for me.
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Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 24th 2020,20:29:40 ) Is it possible that one of them (I mean Jasper, Lyee and Riley) may have a role that switches side after some time like 3 days? If so then I think we should keep that in mind in the future. If not, that makes our chances bigger of lynching the scums. Well Ivelin already said that there are no Masons in this game. Thus one assumes that there wouldn’t be any kind of that shenanigans and as such I’d not be worried about it.
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#2254<br data-children-count="0">That said, bastard mod could do anything, so... yeah.<br data-children-count="0">
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ok thanks GPRO for confirming I'm not Riley.
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Quote ( Tim Wagner @ March 25th 2020,02:09:16 ) Pah. You backed out of voting Riley because he had claimed and nobody counterclaimed. Nobody counterclaimed when you revoted Riley so it doesn't really make sense from your point of view to revote him.What did you expect was going to happen if nobody counterclaimed Riley? I unvoted Riley immediately. How can it be that I backed out of voting him when no one CC’d when I did so promptly? I unvoted him right up because he had claimed like I asked him to do several times right then.
I don’t see what your question to me is about? I didn’t have any expectations about anything before hand or about what would happen if riley did or did not get cc’d. My vote was on what I thought was scummiest, and where the votes looked set to be (as I have said all freaking day).
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I’ll just short quote the post from Riley so that it isn’t flodding the thread, you all can see it.
I’ve left this till last as I want to make it clear that the above comments do not include an assessment of this. (Sidenote: congrats on the baby).
This claim seems a lot more in the line of what Ivelin would come up with. In effect, I believe it more than the D1 claim given that it is truly something a bastard mod might do (either that or a really creative one, I’ll let everyone make their own mind up on that one).
I have a few simple questions about this.
First, why drip the information out? Lets say that the votes don’t turn around D1, do you dump the rest out like this or let the role information die with you? I don’t see the advantage in drip feeding us.
Second (and I won’t pressure you on this as its more a game mechanics question), how many abilities do you have? It could be useful to know as Ivelin would probably have balanced the game around a certain number of nights, and might have given the PRs like yourself who have various one-shot roles enough items to last the game out, and no more.
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,04:08:34 ) Screw this, i'm back at it.
##vote Riley
Not gonna sit and wait for other scum to deal with him while he plays us in my face.
Quote ( Lyee Chong @ March 26th 2020,05:05:31 ) btw, wehn is the lasted deadline?
##vote Riley
Seriously? You're going to try to lynch an uncontested claimed doc at this point? I'll admit that there's a minute chance Riley's deceiving me and a bunch of others right now and is actually scum. But he's really your best candidate, even considering the value he offers town if he is indeed town?
I understand the people voting me way more than I understand you guys voting Riley right now (and please don't both switch your votes to me and put me on L-1 because I said that).
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,02:01:34 ) Have anyone seen him questioning anything on Kirsty? Lyee was the one posting one thing waaaayyyy back there. Apparently nothing on the QT either.
By the way, to all of the QTers, can you please keep us informed about what happens there? It's not like it's any secret anymore. And you dicuss who is town who is not in there? I am still not swallowing that whole idea that Ahmet was waiting for Mike and Riley stuff that happened last gameday. Really, democracy and loyalty is the last thing i would expect from that place.
I believe I was the only one who mentioned having doubts about Kirsty on D1, but again, no VPN to log in the QT to confirm it. If noone does by 6 PM I'll come back with this info.
And what happens there, it's quite quiet at this point, I believe the latest posts are about Andre and what we think of him (again need to double check if I didn't miss anything due to no VPN in here)
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Quote ( George Slater @ March 25th 2020,23:51:26 ) I'm assuming by now you know what the concept of OMGUS is? As far as I can tell this falls into that category of vote, voting me without much reason immediately after I have voted you. Oh and look, you just happen to have jumped on a wagon while doing it.
Quote ( George Slater @ March 25th 2020,23:51:26 ) Alright, didn't get the chance to post my reads last night and along with that explain my reasoning on voting Sebastian. It's more than just that one post and constitutes what I see as a fairly scummy pattern of behaviour.
You do realize you did the same exact thing do you? Except the part you voted me first. And to be honest I know it may seem scummy after I have a second look but I did accuse you way before, and like I already said "never took it back", and the wagon thing is just the way for me to express I really think you're a scum.
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Quote ( Lyee Chong @ March 26th 2020,04:46:12 ) Riley, did you ever crumb anything in the thread? I mean on those stuff that you have revealed?
Nothing was revealed in QT before he said it in the thread. I had no idea that he's gonna go for Kirsty in any way, and after she died I asked there how could this be and Riley never said a word implying his actions before he posted it in here.
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Gonna answer to this before I go to the big wall accusing post...
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,07:04:51 ) Seriously? You're going to try to lynch an uncontested claimed doc at this point? I'll admit that there's a minute chance Riley's deceiving me and a bunch of others right now and is actually scum. But he's really your best candidate, even considering the value he offers town if he is indeed town?
I understand the people voting me way more than I understand you guys voting Riley right now (and please don't both switch your votes to me and put me on L-1 because I said that).
Okay so Andre suddenly votes Riley after he claims he will do that if he's alive on D4-5 that's suspicious. Lyee who may very much be the town also jumps in and votes Riley? I mean I get us all keeping secrets in the game and even Riley definitely didn't reveal everything he knows but voting him for that? I don't buy it, especially cause for now I don't see many others that would jump in and vote Riley...
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Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) This quote comes from the beginning, when he was addressing my joke vote on Kirsty. I didn’t think about it as too significant at the time, but looking back on it now knowing that Kirsty flipped mafia I think it’s quite possible that this was an attempt to pressure me off of my joke vote and raise some suspicion against me by an inexperienced player buddying Kirsty. He was also voting Kirsty at that point but I don’t think that changes it, if anything it just makes it a little more suspicious.
I admit it was unfortunate that I posted that about her. But I already explained it in #2089 and have nothing more to add on that.
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) Now we’ve got Sebastian doing some fishing. Why would he want to know this exactly from a town perspective? If Sudeep did have something and chose not to reveal it, then highlighting it is obviously very dangerous. Obviously scum would want to know this and it seems to me like Sebastian may be trying to use his inexperience as an excuse, looking at how the post starts. Tim ends up confronting him about it and a follow up post, and Sebastian responds about the follow up post:
Why would a town want to know that? Simply because I didn't thought at the time that you guys could be so quickly jumping to conclusions and thought that maybe Sudeep has some deeper knowledge about Jasper. But again after he and Andre did that (the quick jump to conclusion which ended up with a vote) I know that kind or question wouldn't help me in the end.
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) Seeming to imply that it had previously been his intention in the original (the one I quoted).
May very well be. Isn't asking anything a sort of fishing? I mean for me there are 2 ways of gaining information (excluding PR roles) - asking and reading what others said - asking is fishing because you ask to know something...
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) And here we get Sebastian voting Andre just because he’s stubborn!? Sure it might be true but I don’t really see how it’s lynchable. Or is this suddenly in reaction to Andre having called Sebastian a muppet in the post above and is OMGUS even though Andre didn’t vote Sebastian. How is this helpful to town here? But if this wasn’t scummy by itself, what ties into it makes it scummy:
Yes, I got annoyed and voted Andre because of his stubbornness and not willing to accept any other information, how is that helpful to town? I get it when he's right, but what if he's wrong?
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) He’s now moving his vote from Andre to Sudeep off of the connection that they both still want to lynch Riley. This is despite never stating this as a reason he was voting Andre in the first place and never adding that as a reason after doing so. He additionally has not explained why he thinks this is particularly scummy behaviour and has not addressed the issue that unless he thought Andre and Sudeep were buddies, at least one town was practicing such behaviour. These elements combine to give the appearance that Sebastian didn’t have a genuine reason to vote Sudeep and instead voted him merely to move towards the lynch of someone he knew he wasn’t aligned with.
Connection wasn't Riley (I mean it was but not the one I went for) but their stubbornness and things I said a bit earlier in this post. And in my mind (don't take it as a scum cause I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that) lynching someone in D1 is useful cause not lynching gives advantage to scums... And Sudeep had more votes on him than Andre obviously so I switched on the same reasons.
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) On D2 now. Here Sebastian makes the claim that he’s sure a psychotrooper exists in the game while it was being discussed that psychotrooper might not fit into Jasper’s puzzle. He then proceeds to add in the next posts that it’s “if he understands it correctly”. I asked him about this and he responded in post #1958, in which his defence is that it’s a way more complicated game than he has ever played and that he now isn’t sure about it. To me it seems like he knows more than he is letting on (could be deceiving of course) and is trying to backpeddle on what he has said, again using the lack of experience excuse.
Yes, I know something more but not sure if I want to reveal it now, or later.
Quote ( George Slater @ March 26th 2020,06:52:45 ) And finally we’ve got his reaction to Riley, suggesting it would be suspicious if he’s still alive past today while also speculating on types of protection in the game. Given that who scum kill can be WIFOM, especially if there is protective and certain tracking roles involved, and scum knowing that leaving someone alive may draw suspicion to them, it’s very hard to know what may or may not happen. So to try to sow seeds of suspicion about Riley still being alive does not sit well as a town thing to do with me, at least wait until tomorrow when we might actually have a chance of piecing together what happened on N2.
I'm not that suspicious of Riley now. I can see some circumstances why he's alive but I will be more suspicious of him if he's alive of latter days.
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I'm too lazy to write long posts, in fact I hate to do that. So my reasons for voting George:
- Low activity
- Not really helpful to town (case on me is the first thing you've done that may be considered useful and helpful but Lech seem to have it first so it's really you copying him in a way)
- You also jumped in Sudeep wagon despite you mention me doing so being scummy behavior
Other than that a bit of a quote:
Quote ( George Slater @ March 22nd 2020,00:37:09 ) After Kirsty and Lyee, the votes on Sudeep were you, Tim, Sebastian, myself, Martin, and finally Andre (and Tim again).
From a survival perspective your vote initially makes a good amount of sense (although later on this is less the case), and I've now become more convinced you are town with your claim, so your vote doesn't worry me to much.
It's hard to call Tim a part of the trend considering that he was quick to jump off after Sebastian and myself. I can see why he would get concerned by those votes from his perspective.
Sebastian's vote is a bit concerning. Moving his vote from Andre to Sebastian by trying to draw similarities fails to convince me much when his vote on Andre was almost by his own admission an OMGUS vote.
And Martin's vote was understandable for survival purposes. Less understandable for why he left it that late, but I guess that's just Martin being himself.
It is the one I asked you about earlier on. You deliberately left Andre out of explanations even thought the bolded part tells me you didn't forget about him (especially the word finally) at all. You questioned about it said:
Quote ( George Slater @ March 22nd 2020,23:37:46 ) Ah yes, I didn't really include Andre's because he wasn't part of the wagon, rather he was at the end deciding who got lynched.
I can kind of put him down to needing to pick someone at the end, he clearly wanted Riley but that wasn't going anywhere. His *flips coin* thing was a bit weird (however he has said that previously both in this game and in a previous one), but he's since given a bit more insight into what he did in post #1775. "You muppets." is still a little odd I find though.
I think what he did was believable from a town player with his explanation, but it could also easily be scum play. Maybe looking back at Andre-Kirsty interactions would be a worthwhile endeavour.
So you had some suspicions about him but decided to left it out in your initial post, and suddenly asked about it you found the reason and Andre to be 'suspicious' and his interactions with Kirsty worth checking? IMO that's a thrown distraction from yourself...Unless you and Andre are both scums but as for Jasper-Lyee theory I have no actual evidence so far to support that.
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Seb - on thing forgot to ask last night, who are your town reads please? Just names will suffice at this point.
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Quote ( Mike Baston @ March 26th 2020,09:19:39 ) Seb - on thing forgot to ask last night, who are your town reads please? Just names will suffice at this point.
I think I already said it somewhere - I for now believe Riley, Lyee and Jasper are town members, not really sure about others except George who I think is a scum. I have my reads on everyone just not convincing enough to name them either town or scum.
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Quick skim through I see Andre is up to his tricks again. I am beginning to think that he has some sort of Lyncher role
Will go through and make notes
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Riley, why dis you choose to use tue CPR last night?
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Oh, and btw, if i was the lyncher you would already be lynched. It would take me to just have counterclaimed you on the spot on day1 and that's it. I even discussed it with Tim tou know? But yes, go read, you really need to.
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I can safely I'll catch up today. Sorry for the absence.
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Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ March 25th 2020,14:59:18 ) Just checked the vote count - 3 votes on you from Jasper, Tim and Tom, 1 vote on me from you. So yeah I feel like I was right :) So I'll jump in to the George wagon aswell as for me you're one of the top picks. I'll give an explanation if needed after George elaborates if he has anything more on me...
##vote George
I don't know why you felt the need to justify your vote on the basis of how many votes and who was on the wagon
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ March 25th 2020,17:05:36 ) Oh by the way, on the George v Seb thing... distancing, anyone? Two inexperienced mafia players, one of them looking like a serious lynch candidate, so they come up with this cunning plan hoping to help the other survive for a long time?
Possible but I would not say conclusive. If so it is a bit clumsy - but as you say, inexperienced (although George is fairly experienced now)
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Referring to the QT:
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ March 25th 2020,23:40:08 )
In fact I'm slightly baffled to hear that you guys are still talking in there.
To be fair there has been very little in there. There have only been 7 posts in there in the last 3 RL days, and only one in the past 24 hours
Interestingly, 5 of those posts have been from Mike. The other two have been from me responding to him. IMO all of Mike's posts could have been asked in the main thread (with perhaps the exception of the most recent one as that related to Ahmet earlier not wanting to discuss his thoughts about Kirsty's death in the QT)
Is this a scum trying to get extra info from the QT for his scum group?
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ March 25th 2020,23:40:08 ) Who is the one in the QT who started asking about scum reads after D1 ended?
There was not really anyone who did that. There was little discussion. It went something like this:
End of D1 (just before deadline): Seb mentioned his mistrust of Andre (said he bugged him) later mentioned Andre and George
I said that I didn't see Andre as scum. I felt he had been too aggressive
Mike agreed but said that maybe Andre had felt that he had to stay aggressive
Ahmet said that he didn't think he was scum but that his coin flip was questionable
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Mike's Post #2224 is interesting and he does seem to have picked up on a couple of trends in Andre's posting. I noticed that Andre completely refuted it so will look closer at what he says when I get to that
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,02:01:34 ) Please imagine the following scenario: you are town and have Riley's role. You are 'doc of... whatever'.
You are in danger, you claimed already and you are probably getting killed by that.
What one shot ability would you choose on night 1?
Now, keep in mind that he said he has 'a number' of one shot doc abilities. So he is probably hidding more. Probably going to crumbread another one tomorrow (gameday) if he is still alive.
Would you chosen the CPR? On night 1? When you have had little information? Without even seeing any flip? And risk killing a townie by mistake in your possible only night action?
I know i wouldn't.
It doesn't really matter what you would do. It is what I did. We are different people and to be fair I have a LOT more experience of playing with Kirsty than you do
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,02:01:34 ) Now i am not gonna post all Riley's more lies
No please do. You can't just put that out there and not back it up. If you think I have been lying please say where you think that I have been lying As I have demonstrated before, it is possible for people to be talking at cross purposes and there to be misunderstandings. But with other players that is sorted out swiftly but you just do not seem to have that ability.
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,02:01:34 ) I would like to register in case you see him around still on day4-5. Lynch the Riley, ok?
Why not Day 3?
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ March 26th 2020,02:01:34 ) Have anyone seen him questioning anything on Kirsty? Lyee was the one posting one thing waaaayyyy back there. Apparently nothing on the QT either.
I was not suspicious of Kirsty until reading back the events prior to the deadline
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