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Sondajul al subiectului
points for 9th and tenth places
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Subiect: points scores |
39 replici
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Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ August 22nd 2019,11:58:01 ) However, rules changed in the years and not all changes have been good ones imho
One more not good change does not matter. :)
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Well, these are just opinions :). We have opinions for everything, isn't it?
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Quote ( Dusan Sevarlic @ August 21st 2019,18:40:27 )
Well, this is not a racing game... it's about management...
Then why at 7 pm CET on a Tuesday and Friday do we log on to watch a race that you can't do anything about the outcome
It's pointless!!!
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The argument of how much would top position switch with a different scoring system is inadequate. Mainly because if a different scoring system significatively sorted the positions it would be a very dramatic and most likely unfair system, but also because gameplay is driven by the system itself.
As Miel pointed out, the right end of the table that needs to be analyzed is the bottom one. Retention is the main goal for most managers. For that, with the current system one usually needs at least a couple of scoring places, thus being top 20% of the field a handful of times regardless 62.5% of people retain/promote. This, coupled with the PHA enhancement from a few seasons ago, encouraged the utilization of specialized tyres. In the last few seasons the share of specialized tyres in the top leagues has been:
S71: Elite: 70% , Master: 30%
S70: Elite: 55%, Master: 18.5%
S69: Elite: 30%, Master: 24.5%
S68: Elite: 37.5%, Master: 20.5%
In the early 40s, shortly after the introduction of new tyres:
S40: Elite: 17.5%, Master: 10.5%
S41: Elite: 5%, Master: 5%
S42: Elite: 7.5%, Master: 4%
S43: Elite: 25%, Master: 7.5%
From S44 onwards there was an increasing trend in Elite, usually in the 20%-30% bracket, and more recently the share boosted to its current very high level. This is driven mainly due to the scoring system, because if there were higher than 20% scoring places there would be no need for many managers to pick specialized tyres and push only at some specific timings in the season.
Now, I won't argue if this is an ideal situation and working as intended or not, plus opinions on the subject are quite divided. However, it would be very naive to ignore the scoring system being the main cause of this rising trend of specialization rather than full time consistency in the higher leagues, further stimulated by the mechanics that enable great performance outliers (tyre specialization, energy feature, FTs, car wear effect on performance and PHA enhancement).
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Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ August 22nd 2019,12:34:51 ) We have opinions for everything, isn't it? The thing is.
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I supported this in the past, even suggested it too.... Here's why that's not the case anymore
- Stats would be a mess
Enough said
- Game economy would also be a mess
Remember, you earn prize money for every point you gain, so 10 or 25 points per win would make a huge difference, specially against those who used to, and will continue to, earn zero points. They'd either go full throttle and buy 2.5 times as many parts/facilities as they would, or the prices would just go up and there would be massive inequality
- This isn't really a race
Despite the obviousness, let's remember that there is no such thing as a GPRO race, what we see as a GPRO race is really just a pretty display of algorithmical calculations where lady luck plays a huge part. This means that, unlike F1, there's no real effort (aside from all the management tasks), and the f1 point system is about rewarding the teams/drivers effort, that's why there's a 7 point system between 1st and 2nd place. Without any major effort and a huge relevance of luck, a 2 point gap between 1st and 2nd is more fair than 7 points based on luck, not to mention the aftermath(read the economy part)
- Participation
You stated that the new point system could let the players more interested in the game, while this may be true, it ultimately doesn't seem like it. I'd say that for the relegation dispute, if the players couldn't achieve the top 8, the countback would also keep them focused to fight until the end for one good result.
These are my arguments, I don't see the point system changing anyways, since this suggested on a weekly basis
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- Stats are already a mess, or do you think the game is the same now as it was 50 seasons ago? To give one example: new PHA matching has caused many track records to be obliterated, not because managers these days are better but because the lap times are calculated differently.
- It's not so hard to reduce the bonus from 50k to 20k per point.
- "There's no real effort aside from all the management tasks" makes about as much sense as saying "this tree bears no fruit except for all the apples".
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ August 22nd 2019,13:13:07 ) S71: Elite: 70% , Master: 30%
S70: Elite: 55%, Master: 18.5%
S69: Elite: 30%, Master: 24.5%
S68: Elite: 37.5%, Master: 20.5%
In the early 40s, shortly after the introduction of new tyres:
S40: Elite: 17.5%, Master: 10.5%
S41: Elite: 5%, Master: 5%
S42: Elite: 7.5%, Master: 4%
S43: Elite: 25%, Master: 7.5%
I wonder how you came up with these numbers. It seems that you have classified Badyears as a "specialized tyre" which, for Master since this season, is not correct at all (one third of promotion spots are occupied by Badyears and it can't be because they got so much of their beloved rain). For Elite you could classify Badyears as specialized, but that plus Contis gives 60% for this season.
In S70 you did exclude Badyears in Master?
In any case, I think much of the evolutions in tyre selection can be attributed to changes in the tyres themselves rather than the PHA change. For example, the increase in Michi price this season has pushed people away from Michi and towards Conti/BY. The increase in BY performance has made them an attractive option for promotion seasons in Master.
I do agree with your main point in this discussion - the current points system encourages OBP too much (this is opinion, not fact). But the points system is one of the few things in this game that has never changed, so I find it a bit odd to try to find an evolution of the last 10 or 30 seasons and link it to a mechanic that has been there all along. ;)
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Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ August 22nd 2019,12:34:51 ) Well, these are just opinions :). We have opinions for everything, isn't it?
Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and they all stink.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ August 22nd 2019,15:44:31 ) For Elite you could classify Badyears as specialized, but that plus Contis gives 60% for this season.
Yeah, it was a typo. Or me doing a stupid addition error.
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ August 22nd 2019,15:44:31 ) In S70 you did exclude Badyears in Master?
By mistake, yes. Or me doing a stupid addition error.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ August 22nd 2019,15:44:31 ) In any case, I think much of the evolutions in tyre selection can be attributed to changes in the tyres themselves rather than the PHA change. For example, the increase in Michi price this season has pushed people away from Michi and towards Conti/BY. The increase in BY performance has made them an attractive option for promotion seasons in Master.
You are correct in that there are several factors influencing the tyre share, and effectively the Michis cost increase was the main influence on its share reduction this season. However, the trend of increasing share of specialized tyres isn't exclusive from this season and instead there have been several gameplay chances that favor outlier performances, namely energy feature, PHA change and even maybe the promo sponsor rule (because retainers from precedent seasons start with a handicap vs. newcomers who can more easily afford expensive isolated pushing here and there).
Thus, the percentage of scoring positions isn't an isolated mechanic, but it is integrated with a lot of additional stuff. When new tyres were added, they obviously changed the balance of scoring likelihood, yet the scoring places percentage remained static, and so it has regardless the added mechanics that moved the scoring likelihood, in some cases dramatically so.
This being said, irrespective of my personal gameplay preference to avoid pushing, what puzzles me is many of the arguments being used, such as historic statistics (which have been directly affected by many changes anyways, such as the energy feature, boosting laps and PHA enhancement), tradition (as if one would care how many points per race did Fangio get) or even points money, as if that was an actual relevant factor (Roland's whole points money income this season won't be but slightly above 1% of his total budget).
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ August 22nd 2019,15:44:31 ) I find it a bit odd to try to find an evolution of the last 10 or 30 seasons and link it to a mechanic that has been there all along.
Coupled with many gameplay changes in between, which have further enabled that particular gameplay. For that, my point is, and this is personal opinion, 20% of scoring positions has always been quite low, but the addition of these mechanics changes has only made the issue more marked (for right or for wrong, depending on one's personal state about OBPing).
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